Ervin
Active Member
Wow you really need to learn to read.
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- Thread starter jallan71
- Start date
Wow you really need to learn to read.
Mapleson
Active Member
LRT, BRT, streetcars, and buses are not just cheaper transit alternatives to subway systems. They provide various levels of service that are optimal for differing circumstances. Surface transit can and regularly do match a subway system for capacity or speed. More vehicles are required and take up more space; less stops are required and provide lower service levels; nevertheless, they can do the job they are intended for when not touted as cost-slaying champions or lampooned as service-slashing shortcuts.
Building subways, like building roads, is not a mystical ‘key’ to gridlock and only serves to increase congestion by supplying suppressed demand. Toronto’s population annually grows by the size of Kitchener. Over the next 10 years, the GTA’s growth will exceed the total size of Calgary, Edmonton, or Ottawa. A more extensive subway network will partly address this growing demand, but we should not be under any illusions that multi-billion dollar investments will do more than at best maintain the status quo.
Metrolinx is tasked by MoveOntario 2020 with 54 major transportation projects in the GTHA with a primary $17.5 billion funding. Metrolinx's goal is to build strategic network links now to enable a much higher system integration over the next 20-30 years. Trying to divert this sliver of funding to underdeveloped schemes will not work.
Finally, London's Congestion Zone Charge has an net operating income of 35.3% and is one of the most efficient in the world. At a flat fee of $5 and assuming 1,000,000 trips a year with this efficiency, it would take 38 years to pay for just the 33-km Eglinton line or 66 years for the system at her assumed $200m per kilometre.
Transportation, like all parts of the economy, is integrated and any change to any part of the system will have impacts on every other part in the system. Make highway travel less desirable and more people will take transit and local roads. Make the TTC user-fee free and businesses will still depend on truck deliveries.
Building subways, like building roads, is not a mystical ‘key’ to gridlock and only serves to increase congestion by supplying suppressed demand. Toronto’s population annually grows by the size of Kitchener. Over the next 10 years, the GTA’s growth will exceed the total size of Calgary, Edmonton, or Ottawa. A more extensive subway network will partly address this growing demand, but we should not be under any illusions that multi-billion dollar investments will do more than at best maintain the status quo.
Metrolinx is tasked by MoveOntario 2020 with 54 major transportation projects in the GTHA with a primary $17.5 billion funding. Metrolinx's goal is to build strategic network links now to enable a much higher system integration over the next 20-30 years. Trying to divert this sliver of funding to underdeveloped schemes will not work.
Finally, London's Congestion Zone Charge has an net operating income of 35.3% and is one of the most efficient in the world. At a flat fee of $5 and assuming 1,000,000 trips a year with this efficiency, it would take 38 years to pay for just the 33-km Eglinton line or 66 years for the system at her assumed $200m per kilometre.
Transportation, like all parts of the economy, is integrated and any change to any part of the system will have impacts on every other part in the system. Make highway travel less desirable and more people will take transit and local roads. Make the TTC user-fee free and businesses will still depend on truck deliveries.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Sorry....you are correct....in the lateness of the night I inverted my math in the first posting and then just carried $6k forward in my later posts....$4k is still a lot of burden (IMO) to impose on such a targeted group but you are right $6k was an error.
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TOareaFan
Superstar
really?
http://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/on.htm
The margial tax rate on income (non capital gains income, non dividend income and non small business dividends - so, employment income that most of us make) over $76,986 up to $81,941 is 39.41% the next bracket up is over $81,941 up to $127,021 and the tax rate is 43.41%.
There are far more people paying marginal tax rates of 40% (and higher) than you think.
Edit: in re-reading your post I see that you are refering to average tax rates rather than marginal. so the figure to get there is higher....but I still stand by the math because this new tax would be additional it is like creaming off of the top after the other bills have been paid....I believe most people would be paying with their latest dollars earned so the marginal rate is the appropriate figure to use not the average (unless they will get to not pay the bills...mtg, property taxes, food, etc.) that they are already buying with the earlier dollars.
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Asterix
Active Member
Another case where I'm going to have to request you explain this math to me a little more clearly.
My calculator seems to insist on producing a total of $190,000,000 after 38 years, ignoring the net income efficiency. That's not even one el-cheapo $200m km.
Dan416
Senior Member
I think a better amount for a toll would be to make it equivalent to the TTC fare. That way people would know intuitively that they could either drive or take the TTC and it'd cost the same amount (minus gas). Or it'd be cheaper if you bought tokens. Or whatever. I think $5 is a bit much for one way.
sixrings
Senior Member
Coruscanti Cognoscente
I think a better amount for a toll would be to make it equivalent to the TTC fare. That way people would know intuitively that they could either drive or take the TTC and it'd cost the same amount (minus gas). Or it'd be cheaper if you bought tokens. Or whatever. I think $5 is a bit much for one way.
THIS IS A GREAT IDEA!!! I like...
I think a better amount for a toll would be to make it equivalent to the TTC fare. That way people would know intuitively that they could either drive or take the TTC and it'd cost the same amount (minus gas). Or it'd be cheaper if you bought tokens. Or whatever. I think $5 is a bit much for one way.
THIS IS A GREAT IDEA!!! I like...
Calrissian
Active Member
Not sure if it has been mentioned yet (didn't see it), but I would prefer our mayoral candidates not to disrupt the already approved, funded and under construction transit projects (Sheppard, Eglinton & Finch) and propose a slightly more palatable toll ($3) that could go to funding the DRL.
nfitz
Superstar
Not particularily (though it has it's moments of late) ... but still many of the folks who comment on the website seem to be very right wing.
Fresh Start
Banned
Better to disrupt something that is ill-conceived from its infancy before its too late, rather than to suffer the multifaceted consequences of those bad decisions down the road. If TPTB had come up with a proposal to relaunch the Eglinton subway line, which was justifiable a mere decade earlier, and talked about a mix of new LRT and BRTs for every major artery vs. just a finite number of kms down 7 corridors; then Transit City would've made sense on some level. However they didn't, and therefore I'm all for its cancellation. Sheppard and Eglinton both need to be subways and Finch should have a fully crosstown BRT busway line. Period. Top-down bureaucratic decisions being made by people whom have no idea what the transit-using public wants or needs, are not the sort of dictatorial orders that we should be endorsing.
Oh, and I believe Ms. Thomson said that she'd implement tolls but also attract private firms as two concurrent revenue streams with which to aid in expanding the subway system, including the most downtown-centric DRL that I've seen proposed in a long while. Better that than solely relying on the scraps thrown at Toronto from higher govt's with their own set of agendas; and thus ensures that the priorities of 416 constituents are being taken care of first and foremost. But in order to get high quality transit, it'll take some sacrifice on the part of private car-drivers. I know it sucks to hear that but given the times, this step almost seems inevitable.
Justin10000
Banned
THIS is a great idea. Toronto will still receive high quality transit from Transit City, and the city can focus on building the DRL using tolls that are a little more reasonable. I like it.
Better this than backing some amateurish pie in the sky idea.
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sixrings
Senior Member
Id keep Transit city as is.. But with the eglinton portion of the subway going all the way from JANE to Don Mills, the bloor line extended to STC.... And then the DRL from Don mills station (FAIR VIEW MALL) all the way to Dundas WEST... (the farther north the subway goes on Don Mills the more riders it will take off of the yonge line)
Calrissian
Active Member
Well then, I hope you're pretty young, otherwise, should Toronto go this route, you won't be riding any of those lines in your lifetime.
doady
Senior Member
Multibillion dollar transit projects probably should be based on long term needs and goals, instead of short term.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
+1