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Ads don’t have to cover the windows to generate revenue. I find them very unpleasant. Rode a bus charter all the way to NYC with those things on the windows - consensus on the bus was it was a miserable experience.

We could eliminate cleaning for transit vehicles and save another 2-3%. Shall we do that too ? Maybe not.

Let’s make the transit experience attractive so we get 2-3% more riders. I don’t see an affordability dilemma here.

- Paul
 
Ads don’t have to cover the windows to generate revenue. I find them very unpleasant. Rode a bus charter all the way to NYC with those things on the windows - consensus on the bus was it was a miserable experience.

We could eliminate cleaning for transit vehicles and save another 2-3%. Shall we do that too ? Maybe not.

Let’s make the transit experience attractive so we get 2-3% more riders. I don’t see an affordability dilemma here.

- Paul
Do we have numbers that show people are avoiding transit because 1 out of 500 vehicles have a window wrap?
 
Of course they won't - it's a captive audience. Doesn't mean visual pollution should be a modus operandi.

AoD
The point is, if you do that. Something is going to get reduced. Are we ok to reduce the frequency on the route so that we can remove the ad (and likely still not see out the window due to dirt?)
 
The point is, if you do that. Something is going to get reduced. Are we ok to reduce the frequency on the route so that we can remove the ad (and likely still not see out the window due to dirt?)

I am not convinced you are offering me the complete picture of the trade space, other than positing it as an oversimplified if/then argument.

AoD
 
The problem is that the TTC is underfunded. The use of wrap ads is a source of revenue for the TTC (and GO and the other transit agencies). If we want to reduce the use of wrap ads, increase the operational budget of the TTC (and other transit agencies), not just from the farebox, but also from the city and province (and federal) governments.
 
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The point is, if you do that. Something is going to get reduced. Are we ok to reduce the frequency on the route so that we can remove the ad (and likely still not see out the window due to dirt?)
Advertising doesn't provide much revenue for the TTC. Check out the budget.

In 2018, that was $28.35m. Around the same as many of the add-ons that TTC has provided (2 hour transfer, under 12 free, etc).

That's all advertising. If as a city, we said we don't want streetcars wrapped, that could easily absorbed.
 
Advertising doesn't provide much revenue for the TTC. Check out the budget.

In 2018, that was $28.35m. Around the same as many of the add-ons that TTC has provided (2 hour transfer, under 12 free, etc).

That's all advertising. If as a city, we said we don't want streetcars wrapped, that could easily absorbed.
The city is over a billon dollars short, every penny is a tough spend now. Snow clearing is a big issue and I believe they only reached 15% of their target. I'd rather that money go to clear the roads where the busses get stuck or any other program with tangible benefits.
 
$28 mil may be a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, but it's not nothing.

Instead of nixing ad wraps, I would much rather they instead optimize those ads for maximum passenger comfort and visual pleasantness. No full window coverings, wrap the entire front of the vehicle (leaving the front unwrapped looks extremely cheap), and optimize the ads a little. There is nothing so embarrassing as seeing a streetcar pass by with an ad for the latest car model - promoting its own competition!
 
I imagine that advertisers would pay as much, or nearly as much, for wraps that leave the windows untouched.

Perhaps a 10-20% price cut for non-window wraps would attract more advertisers and hence break even.

People may not refuse to board a wrapped vehicle, but it diminishes the experience and that may indeed discourage ridership. If anyone didn’t notice, the roads are full of cars and the destiny issue for the TTC is to grow modal share. One has to consider revenue potential and not analyse as a fixed ridership that we can cut pennies with.
- Paul
 
You could increase the cost of the TTC by $0.05/ride and eliminate all advertising (at least I've heard that stat at one point). My point being isn't that this should happen, just that it is a good reminder of how small a drop in the bucket advertising is in terms of the system's operating revenues.
 
You could increase the cost of the TTC by $0.05/ride and eliminate all advertising (at least I've heard that stat at one point). My point being isn't that this should happen, just that it is a good reminder of how small a drop in the bucket advertising is in terms of the system's operating revenues.

Or just have the standard ad type, no wraps (the quoted figure for one fully wrapped streetcar per year, at the vendor end, is to the tune of $50K).

AoD
 
Or just have the standard ad type, no wraps (the quoted figure for one fully wrapped streetcar per year, at the vendor end, is to the tune of $50K).

AoD
I didn't realize the wrap was for a whole year! I remember years ago teksavvy started putting ads and would mail you one for free as they paid $5000 for a subway ad above the lights (they weren't clear how many ads the $5000 covered though
 

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