[Amare]

Do we smell a boondoggle?

That title belongs to the Crosstown; the most inefficient way to spend billions of dollars concocted compared to alternative methods.

Finch West is actually pretty decent value for money, with the exception of these joke transit shelters.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

Finch West is actually pretty decent value for money, with the exception of these joke transit shelters.

In what way is this not value for money? It’s a basic bus shelter, it’s one small step up from nothing in terms of cost and value to users. It’s a relatively tight budget project so there aren’t many bells and whistles, this is a very standard design and that’s all you should expect.

Consider for a moment these similar shelter designs in other North American light rail implementations: Boston, Washington, and Minnesota, respectively – all cities that face similarly harsh weather.

It’s very common to see these shelters, especially median ones, with one or no walls since foot traffic must run through either end and at least one other side is an open platform. I think it would be a bigger joke if they were expensively overbuilt with a fully sealed enclosure and an excessive number of doors.

 

[Amare]

In what way is this not value for money? It’s a basic bus shelter, it’s one small step up from nothing in terms of cost and value to users. It’s a relatively tight budget project so there aren’t many bells and whistles, this is a very standard design and that’s all you should expect.

Consider for a moment these similar shelter designs in other North American light rail implementations: Boston, Washington, and Minnesota, respectively – all cities that face similarly harsh weather.

View attachment 524098
View attachment 524099
View attachment 524100

It’s very common to see these shelters, especially median ones, with one or no walls since foot traffic must run through either end and at least one other side is an open platform. I think it would be a bigger joke if they were expensively overbuilt with a fully sealed enclosure and an excessive number of doors.

So because those cities aim low, we should aim just as low?

We're not asking for grandiose enclosures here, just shelters that are actually functional. If Metrolinx spares no expense when it comes to their parking garages, they shouldnt when it comes to simple station canopies.

 

[allengeorge]

Two things are true:

1. The Finch shelters represent value for money by generally using a standard design.
2. The standard design does not protect users from the elements.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

So because those cities aim low, we should aim just as low?

We're not asking for grandiose enclosures here, just shelters that are actually functional. If Metrolinx spares no expense when it comes to their parking garages, they shouldnt when it comes to simple station canopies.

Could you suggest something better that fits in the small footprint of these street median platforms? Maybe find an example of one?

I’m not saying you can’t do this, I just think it would be more productive to the argument for something better. As I’ve explained it in my previous reply I can’t think of a better design without breaking the bank or relocating the platforms.

 

[asey20]

Could you suggest something better that fits in the small footprint of these street median platforms? Maybe find an example of one?

I’m not saying you can’t do this, I just think it would be more productive to the argument for something better. As I’ve explained it in my previous reply I can’t think of a better design without breaking the bank or relocating the platforms.

Eglinton line, at the very list, should've had platforms in the video (timestamp: 3:09) I have linked below:

 

[turini2]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730617753986298274

 

[T3G]

Could you suggest something better that fits in the small footprint of these street median platforms? Maybe find an example of one?

I’m not saying you can’t do this, I just think it would be more productive to the argument for something better. As I’ve explained it in my previous reply I can’t think of a better design without breaking the bank or relocating the platforms.

You could have a shelter that spreads across the entire width of the platform, and have people pass through the shelter on their way along the platform.

 

[turini2]

In what way is this not value for money? It’s a basic bus shelter, it’s one small step up from nothing in terms of cost and value to users. It’s a relatively tight budget project so there aren’t many bells and whistles, this is a very standard design and that’s all you should expect.

Consider for a moment these similar shelter designs in other North American light rail implementations: Boston, Washington, and Minnesota, respectively – all cities that face similarly harsh weather.

View attachment 524098
View attachment 524099
View attachment 524100

It’s very common to see these shelters, especially median ones, with one or no walls since foot traffic must run through either end and at least one other side is an open platform. I think it would be a bigger joke if they were expensively overbuilt with a fully sealed enclosure and an excessive number of doors.

Good example here from Edmonton - maybe a good compromise would have been fitting stops considered to have high traffic levels with a heated shelter?

But.... you would need more street width, and there has been the desire for two traffic lanes in each direction...

 

[Coolibop]

I believe these were consistent with the shelters in the renderings at quick glance:

All this discussion about shelters has me wondering what Metrolinx will build for the Durham-Scarborough BRT (which we will find out soon?)... Presumably because of longer headways/wait times. Here's a conceptual drawing to compare:

 

[NoahB]

Eglinton line, at the very list, should've had platforms in the video (timestamp: 3:09) I have linked below:

Tram platform edge doors! Nice!

I believe these were consistent with the shelters in the renderings at quick glance:
View attachment 524180

All this discussion about shelters has me wondering what Metrolinx will build for the Durham-Scarborough BRT (which we will find out soon?)... Presumably because of longer headways/wait times. Here's a conceptual drawing to compare:
View attachment 524179

These look similar to the Pie-IX BRT shelters in Montreal. They have glass protection at the bus stop. (Notably, not at the covered 'pathway' section.)

(source)

(Source)

The York BRT has sections with fully enclosed areas.

(Source)

Finch West LRT/Metrolinx has no excuse other than a lack of ambition.

 

[EnviroTO]

Something is wrong with the York shelters because all the GO buses on the route stop on the curb. I'm curious if the shelter isn't high enough or what the rationale is.

 

[smallspy]

Something is wrong with the York shelters because all the GO buses on the route stop on the curb. I'm curious if the shelter isn't high enough or what the rationale is.

York Region is adamant that the only vehicles that use the busway are VIVA-branded buses in revenue service, and nothing else. The sole exception has been ZUM buses on Highway 7 west of York University. Deadheading buses are to use the streets, as are all YRT and GO buses.

They have even tried to prevent the various emergency services from using them, but I don't believe that they were successful in that.

Dan

 

[EnviroTO]

York Region is adamant that the only vehicles that use the busway are VIVA-branded buses in revenue service, and nothing else. The sole exception has been ZUM buses on Highway 7 west of York University. Deadheading buses are to use the streets, as are all YRT and GO buses.

They have even tried to prevent the various emergency services from using them, but I don't believe that they were successful in that.

Dan

Didn't the province contribute funds? This is ridiculous. I can understand deadheading buses, non-transit buses, and buses that are stopping more frequently than VIVA, but for other transit buses like GO Transit... isn't the common goal to get people out of their cars? The busway is nowhere near capacity. I don't get it.

 

[smallspy]

Didn't the province contribute funds? This is ridiculous. I can understand deadheading buses, non-transit buses, and buses that are stopping more frequently than VIVA, but for other transit buses like GO Transit... isn't the common goal to get people out of their cars? The busway is nowhere near capacity. I don't get it.

You're absolutely right, but.....

There are many decisions that are made by the Region (and particularly pertaining to transit) that just don't make sense - either at first blush, or when you do a bit more of a deep-dive into them. This is just one of them.

Dan