[Electrify]

As is, if the Sheppard line acts as a relief for any road, it is the 404/401/DVP interchange. If coming from York Region during rush hour, it makes much more sense to park at Don Mills and take the subway than to fight your way through that merciless junction. With that said, I usually park at Yorkdale since when I go into the city it tends to be during off peak periods, and the 401 between the 404 and Allen Rd. tends to not be too congested.

 

[ShonTron]

Not necessarily. Putting in queue jump lanes at major intersections along busy bus routes would do wonders for the efficiency of the routes. And since it would be a localized road widening at an intersection, no reduced roadspace for cars at all. And most of all for Ford, it would get buses out of the way of cars (it just so happens that adding in queue jump lanes would do more for the buses than it would for the cars).

This concept is being implemented very well on Baseline Road in Ottawa. Key intersections are being widened out to include buses only lanes around the intersections (about 50m before the intersection and about 25m after the intersection). It has already increased the efficiency of the routes. Over time, mid-block widenings will take place in strategic locations where mid-block congestion is highest.

You don't have to go to Ottawa: Queen Street in Brampton was rebuilt with queue-jump lanes (and signed as such, with big "bus only" signs), and so will Steeles Avenue for the implementation of BRT-lite Zum for 2012. Queue-jumps make far-side stops worth their while, and are built to allow buses to accelerate when leaving the stops for a smooth entry into general traffic. Other major streets in Brampton (such as Bovaird) have been or will be given similar treatment. They aren't as effective as dedicated lanes, but they are an improvement, especially for suburban roads like Queen or Baseline. Steeles makes a lot of sense given how many tractor-trailers use that road, buses can navigate around them easier. The other benefit of far-side stops is that it makes it possible for a signal system to hold green lights for approaching buses.

I'd love to see regular TTC routes get some bus-priority measures. I think roads like Finch West and East, Don Mills, Sheppard East, etc would be perfect for queue-jumps, signal priority (even holding green lights to let the bus past) and other BRT-lite treatments. Fancy branding like Viva or Zum is not needed.

 

[gweed123]

You don't have to go to Ottawa: Queen Street in Brampton was rebuilt with queue-jump lanes (and signed as such, with big "bus only" signs), and so will Steeles Avenue for the implementation of BRT-lite Zum for 2012. Queue-jumps make far-side stops worth their while, and are built to allow buses to accelerate when leaving the stops for a smooth entry into general traffic. Other major streets in Brampton (such as Bovaird) have been or will be given similar treatment. They aren't as effective as dedicated lanes, but they are an improvement, especially for suburban roads like Queen or Baseline. Steeles makes a lot of sense given how many tractor-trailers use that road, buses can navigate around them easier. The other benefit of far-side stops is that it makes it possible for a signal system to hold green lights for approaching buses.

I'd love to see regular TTC routes get some bus-priority measures. I think roads like Finch West and East, Don Mills, Sheppard East, etc would be perfect for queue-jumps, signal priority (even holding green lights to let the bus past) and other BRT-lite treatments. Fancy branding like Viva or Zum is not needed.

I agree completely. I was just using Baseline because it is the closest major street to where I live in Ottawa. Queue jump lanes are probably the best ROI in terms of minutes saved compared to a regular bus route per dollar spent.

As for roads in Toronto, I like your list. I would also add the more suburban parts of Dufferin, Jane, and Wilson/York Mills/Ellesmere.

Here's a pic I snapped a few weeks ago of the new queue jump lanes being installed at the intersection of Baseline and Clyde. Also notice the bike lanes. Pretty sure Rob Ford would hate those (can't have bike lanes on major arterial roads after all ).

 

[Amy Rose]

If theres room, there could be varying levels of service, say local, express (stops at major intersections and connecting bus routes), and express+ (or Rocket Lite) where only the high ridership stops get the service.
Jane for example: Local stops are all stops, express is Jane STN Foxwell, Eglinton W, Weston Rd, Trethewey, Lawrence W, etc etc. but express+/Rocket Lite would be: Jane STN, Dundas W, Eglinton W., Lawrence W, Wilson, Sheppard, Finch, Steeles W.

 

[Paleo]

Yes, because the fact that suburban Toronto has plethora of overcrowded bus routes with 5 minute or better frequencies like Finch East, Finch West, Don Mills, Dufferin, Eglinton West, Jane clearly proves that it cannot support subways.



Considering debt, maybe it is better not build higher order transit at all, because it will always make transit more inefficient and a loss to the taxpayers and transit riders according to your standard.



So spending 5B dollars to expand a subway line that originally cost 1B dollars will only result in an ridership increase of 50%, an increase that is lower than current ridership of the Sheppard East bus, and this is the most optimistic prediction? Whatever you say.



I guess that is why the TTC is cancelling so much lesser used service. A few riders are stealing from other transit users, taxpayers, and the city. The Blue Night service is theft.

In the words of another poster from here, that settles it! Any route with 5 minute bus frequencies with one or two other similar parallel routes is on to the list for subway consideration.

Correct me if my math is wrong but assuming 60 people per bus and 2.5 minute frequencies, that's only 1500ppdph max.

 

[andrewpmk]

Agreed. The only type of service that would make a dent in 401 traffic volumes is an express rail or express bus service that uses the 401 (or runs parallel to it, or serves the same trip patterns as the 401 does).

I don't think that express buses will make much of a difference to the traffic on the 401. Express buses get stuck in rush hour traffic. GO Transit runs some limited express bus service to Oshawa, Brampton and Mississauga/Oakville, but they don't make much of a difference. Also they are useless for people getting off at intermediate exits e.g. they don't help someone travelling to Victoria Park & Sheppard.

The advantage of a subway is that in rush hour traffic congestion, it is probably faster (and much less stressful) than driving on the 401. Combined with bus connections to every N/S bus route crossing Sheppard and bus connections at STC and Downsview, an extended Sheppard subway would provide an alternative to the 401 or overcrowded bus routes for travelling east west across the north part of the city. I'm not sure what the origins and destinations of trips along that stretch of the 401 are, but I think that there are many people who are only travelling a few exits on the 401 who might find a subway useful.

An Eglinton subway would have a similar effect, particularly if extended to the airport to bypass the most congested section of the 401 (Highway 400 to Highway 409) and provided with good bus connections to Mississauga. Obviously subways will not eliminate traffic congestion on the 401 because not everyone will use the subway, but hopefully they will at least reduce it (or at the very least prevent it from getting even worse than it already is).

 

[Paleo]

I don't think that express buses will make much of a difference to the traffic on the 401. Express buses get stuck in rush hour traffic. GO Transit runs some limited express bus service to Oshawa, Brampton and Mississauga/Oakville, but they don't make much of a difference. Also they are useless for people getting off at intermediate exits e.g. they don't help someone travelling to Victoria Park & Sheppard.

The advantage of a subway is that in rush hour traffic congestion, it is probably faster (and much less stressful) than driving on the 401. Combined with bus connections to every N/S bus route crossing Sheppard and bus connections at STC and Downsview, an extended Sheppard subway would provide an alternative to the 401 or overcrowded bus routes for travelling east west across the north part of the city. I'm not sure what the origins and destinations of trips along that stretch of the 401 are, but I think that there are many people who are only travelling a few exits on the 401 who might find a subway useful.

An Eglinton subway would have a similar effect, particularly if extended to the airport to bypass the most congested section of the 401 (Highway 400 to Highway 409) and provided with good bus connections to Mississauga. Obviously subways will not eliminate traffic congestion on the 401 because not everyone will use the subway, but hopefully they will at least reduce it (or at the very least prevent it from getting even worse than it already is).

I doubt it. Most of the traffic on Sheppard's stubway right now is downtown oriented. Anyone going east west probably has to put up with north south buses at both ends of their trip because there's not much of anything on the actual street Sheppard.

Subway or not, that's not going to get people on the 401 out of their cars.

 

[sixrings]

A sheppard extension to vic park is growing on me... My main opposition to this was that I believe don mills is the perfect terminus for a DRL line. However by the time a DRL is built all the way to donmills, the sheppard line will probably justifiably be able to extend to kennedy.

 

[Electrify]

I'm going downtown Tuesday afternoon to see a concert, and because of the time of day I plan on parking at Don Mills rather than fight my way across the 401 to Yorkdale.

 

[sixrings]

how will a shepherd subway help you get to yorkdale?

 

[Electrify]

how will a shepherd subway help you get to yorkdale?

I'm going downtown, not to Yorkdale. I was trying to say that during non-peak times, it is faster to take the 401 across to Yorkdale, park there, and take the train downtown. During peak times, it is faster to park at Don Mills, take the train across, transfer, and then go downtown.

 

[sixrings]

wouldnt have been easier to park at yonge and finch? ANd must suck for yorkdale that they are used frequently as a place to park to go downtown. Id be happy if they charges 2$ to park at the mall.. Maybe it would get some of the window shoppers out of the mall.

 

[Electrify]

wouldnt have been easier to park at yonge and finch? ANd must suck for yorkdale that they are used frequently as a place to park to go downtown. Id be happy if they charges 2$ to park at the mall.. Maybe it would get some of the window shoppers out of the mall.

Possibly. The thing is that Finch isn't on the highway, though I do know a few shortcuts to get there. At both Don Mills and Yorkdale there are designated areas for TTC customers to park in. During the morning rush they both charge for parking though.

The point I was trying to illustrate was that even if the stubway is not completed to Scarborough and even if it doesn't remove as much traffic from the 401 as hoped, it still provides adequate relief for the 404/401/DVP interchange (for those unfamiliar, it has 12 lanes merge into 3).

 

[Justin10000]

The point I was trying to illustrate was that even if the stubway is not completed to Scarborough and even if it doesn't remove as much traffic from the 401 as hoped, it still provides adequate relief for the 404/401/DVP interchange (for those unfamiliar, it has 12 lanes merge into 3).

Pffft. Yeah right. It provides no relief for that mess.

 

[Voltz]

There are barely 350 TTC parking spaces at Don Mills station, hardly even a dent.