The fact that the city says to do something doesn't necessarily mean it's the safest thing to do in the situation.
The City, Association of Municipalities, MTO, and QP have all been azzholes on this. *The only law that applies is the HTA!* And it's not only wanting, *cyclists have no protection in a court of law for traffic offences unless a particular clause in the HTA is broken*.
Or as Jared says in the Globe article, both parties should slow down and do what's safest depending on the conditions at the intersection.
In the absence of clear legal status, yes.
Even
here where the line is solid? I'm pretty sure that's illegal.
It is illegal. And the City is an ass on this for a number of reasons.
Yeah, my understanding is that drivers are supposed to hug the curb only in instances where there's a dashed white line in the bike lane.
Either way, as both a driver and a cyclist, totally agreed that the inconsistency creates all sorts of confusion for all road users (and I don't think it's at all proper to denounce some as "militant" for responding to that confusion).
Absolutely, to the point that the cops I've interviewed on this have no answer, and rather than be quoted, request I look for an answer from their head of public relations. They're real fear besides a cyclist getting badly hurt or killed from this? Not being able to prosecute, and even worse, the aggrieved not having the basis of law to bring a case for damages.
With the solid white line cars cannot hug the curb to turn right, but the right turning car still gets the right of way, and cyclists are supposed to stop or swerve left around the turning car.
Which is craziness, but thats the rule in the MTO.
It's not the rule, I've quoted in this string a number of times. Technically, any vehicle turning across a lane without first "acquiring it" is in violation of the HTA. And the City has set this up all over the city.
It's an absolute legal absurdity. The least the City can do (and indeed, this might be determined by Superior Court if they get sued and lose) is accept the legal responsibilities since they counsel either illegal acts, or acts prone to render injury to those counselled to doing so.
I've written to various cycling orgs, the City, councillors....and not an answer. Not one. The fffing cowards. The cops are more than willing to talk on it, but not on record, fair enough, it's for their official spokesman, who I've been put in touch with, but haven't contacted yet.
Desk sergeants of various divisions, one being traffic, have urged me to pursue this. How bad is it? One sergeant who was on bike patrol until last year, wasn't even aware of what the City is stating on bike lanes, it isn't under any legal acts, it's only by-law. And that includes the Green Boxes folks.
Get whacked, and under the HTA, *techincally* you are in violation of obstructing traffic if not some other clauses, including the "not cross a lane unless acquiring it first" clause of the HTA.
It's a freakin' mess, and at this rate, it will take a binding court judgement to get it changed. Rant to be continued...
Edit to Add: To be clear, ultimately it's the responsibility of QP to change the HTA, and the responsibility of municipalities to urge that (which many have, but still shirking their inherited responsibilities...*liability* in counselling non-compliant actions).
Edit to Add: Just delving deeper on this, and there's yet another complication of what the City is counselling and what the HTA dictates:
[...]
When you're turning right, you don't have the right to turn into the left lane, police say.
"In simple terms, you turn right into the right lane only, and left in to the left lane only," says Toronto police traffic services Const. Clint Stibbe. "The only (legal) exception for a vehicle making a right turn into another lane has to do with a transport trailer, if they have to make a wide turn."
Section 141 of Ontario's Highway Traffic Act (HTA) spells out the rules for turns.
It says a driver turning right must turn into "the right-hand lane of the intersecting highway where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway being entered."
In other words,
stay in your lane — and if there isn't one, keep to the right.
Left turns are the same — unless signs or markings tell you otherwise, turn into the far left lane.
If you're on a road that allows turns from multiple lanes, you stay in the lane you started in — unless there are signs indicating otherwise.
"The vast majority of drivers make turns improperly," Stibbe says. "It's habitual — if you follow a driver who's just made an improper turn, you'll see they make all their turns improperly."
If you get caught making an improper turn in Ontario, it's two demerits and a $110 fine. [...]
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/gl...27292018/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&
Anyone care to venture what the Law is when a vehicle is turning right from a cycling lane attained legally, and turning onto a road also with a cycling lane?
Remember, under the HTA, a cycling lane, although restricted in use, *is a lane* for all intents and purposes of the HTA.
