Yes, I've ridden in 75 km winds.
It's a pilot. Cargo bikes are used around the world. I'm sure Toronto will figure it out.
It's a pilot. Cargo bikes are used around the world. I'm sure Toronto will figure it out.
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- Thread starter rp07
- Start date
steveintoronto
Superstar
Absolutely, it's going to have to be, and streamlined/airflowed. I don't see this as a 'green' move at all. It's one to lay claim to bike lanes, and effectively block them all over again.
More here:
https://bikeportland.org/2016/12/07...d-trike-to-deliver-freight-in-portland-196744
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pstogios
Senior Member
This is getting off topic from the thread topic, but actually this is ingenious. Perhaps the #1 infraction committed by delivery trucks from all companies is parking in live lanes. I once saw a UPS truck parking smack dab in the middle of Richmond Street just east of Spadina. I approached him to ask “this is a busy road; has it become your personal parking spot?” He replied by cursing at me and then said there’s no where else to park (which is total BS as I pointed to an alley way right across the road).
But I digress. If these delivery-cycles can bypass the sense of entitlement by delivery driver that they can park anywhere on the street they want, then there will be some non-trivial progress to alleviating traffic congestion. Instead they can simply leave their cycle on the sidewalk led that always have excess capacity.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Can they? How are they going to get that up the curb? And safely back down again into a cycle lane? And what you espouse means blocking the sidewalk instead of the cycling lane. So do they then park in the vehicle lanes?
I can see the classic 'Dutch' or 'Danish' cargo-bike working, because sight-lines are unhindered, wind buffeting is minimal, and you can *pull them* up a curb in reverse, since the weight is on the front. And not only that they take much less width, so they can work in most (not all) cycling lanes.
Late Edit: Here's an example that would work:
Update, June 2014
Thanks to the German forum pedelecforum.de member “Rocket” for this link. UPS just released a public relation pic showing one of their employees using a Riese & Muller “Bakfiets” Long John-style cargobike that is using the higher-powered version of the Bosch mid drive.
A UPS employee using a Bakfiets cargobike from Riese & Muller.
https://www.electricbike.com/ups-using-e-trikes-for-delivery-in-germany/
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
Meanwhile, the usual "will not work in winter" complaints.
Like the regular delivery trucks and vans handle snow much better.
Like the regular delivery trucks and vans handle snow much better.
pstogios
Senior Member
Can they? How are they going to get that up the curb? And safely back down again into a cycle lane? And what you espouse means blocking the sidewalk instead of the cycling lane. So do they then park in the vehicle lanes?
I can see the classic 'Dutch' or 'Danish' cargo-bike working, because sight-lines are unhindered, wind buffeting is minimal, and you can *pull them* up a curb in reverse, since the weight is on the front. And not only that they take much less width, so they can work in most (not all) cycling lanes.
Late Edit: Here's an example that would work:
Update, June 2014
Thanks to the German forum pedelecforum.de member “Rocket” for this link. UPS just released a public relation pic showing one of their employees using a Riese & Muller “Bakfiets” Long John-style cargobike that is using the higher-powered version of the Bosch mid drive.
A UPS employee using a Bakfiets cargobike from Riese & Muller.
https://www.electricbike.com/ups-using-e-trikes-for-delivery-in-germany/
Nobody every said the particular design presented in the original piece is exactly the design that should be put into practice. If there is a better design, such as the one in your photo, that’s fine.
The point of my post was that the delivery cycle idea is actually a good one that can help the vehicular congestion problem.
steveintoronto
Superstar
And John Tory isn't going to be pedalling them either? Had me fooled for a moment there.
http://toronto.citynews.ca/2017/10/23/ups-canada-launching-bike-courier-project-toronto/
This is intriguing:
[UPS said it also hopes to work with the Ontario government to amend the province’s Highway Traffic Act to allow the company to deploy cargo e-bikes.]
https://globalnews.ca/news/3819301/ups-to-launch-delivery-bicycle-pilot-project-in-toronto/
Well here's an idea: The City of Toronto ask the Province to to amend the HTA to cover cycling infrastructure.
How's that for a PR Op Mr Tory?
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Tuscani01
Senior Member
Quick update on my situation:
I reported the accident today at a collision centre. At the time, the driver had yet to file a report. I had the drivers license info and vehicle make and colour. Went quite smoothly. (Minus the officer ranting about how cyclists should be licensed and insured - despite me having a license and insurance - which I pulled out to make a point and called him out on the comment)
I also called my insurance company to verify that nothing would be put against my policy and they confirmed that I had nothing to worry about.
Then I got a call from the driver threatening legal action if I didn’t pay up for the damage. I have contacted a lawyer and he’s offered to take the case pro-bono if the driver tries to pursue it. He will recoup costs from her.
Shout out to CycleTO for the advice on what to do, and the lawyer referral. Such a great service.
I reported the accident today at a collision centre. At the time, the driver had yet to file a report. I had the drivers license info and vehicle make and colour. Went quite smoothly. (Minus the officer ranting about how cyclists should be licensed and insured - despite me having a license and insurance - which I pulled out to make a point and called him out on the comment)
I also called my insurance company to verify that nothing would be put against my policy and they confirmed that I had nothing to worry about.
Then I got a call from the driver threatening legal action if I didn’t pay up for the damage. I have contacted a lawyer and he’s offered to take the case pro-bono if the driver tries to pursue it. He will recoup costs from her.
Shout out to CycleTO for the advice on what to do, and the lawyer referral. Such a great service.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Excellent! Many wouldn't pursue this course. Credit to you for doing so. Keep it uppermost in your mind that you did absolutely nothing wrong. The driver appears guilty of at least one offence:
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08#BK228
Do you have more detail on this? There's definitely an offence on the part of the driver on one charge, and full liability may not apply on the "failing to acquire"...part of that liability might rest with the City for non-compliance with the HTA. I'm very interested to see if Cycle Toronto is interested in using this as a test-case. It certainly should, a lot of the painted infrastructure puts cyclists at great risk.
Late Addendum: Just reading the Cycle Toronto website to see what I can find, and this jumped off the page:
Submitted by jaredkolb on Sat, 06/24/2017 - 09:41
https://www.cycleto.ca/news/press-release-toronto-picks-road-safety-over-speed-new-poll-finds
One of many cases where the painted lanes are non-compliant to what the HTA requires for vehicle right hand turns. At least this one has the corner radiused, but it still renders right turns by motorized vehicles as being illegal since they can't "acquire the lane nearest the curb" before turning.
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ADRM
Senior Member
Ben Spurr actually got confirmation from the city that these won't be allowed in bike lanes.
steveintoronto
Superstar
I quoted Tory himself:
http://toronto.citynews.ca/2017/10/23/ups-canada-launching-bike-courier-project-toronto/
It still leaves as many questions unanswered as answered. The vehicles need approval by the Province, and a change to the HTA. UPS have claimed to be applying for this, thus my comment prior on (gist) "Why doesn't the City apply for changes to the HTA to protect cyclists?". In the event, since further delving on that point, the association of municipalities have pushed for a number of changes, but there's still a long way to go. That's a subject for further discussion later.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
That's great to hear they helped you out on this one!
BTW, shamless plug shout-out to also @CycleHamilton too: The Bay cycle track (first north-south cycle track) just opened in downtown Hamilton and our Dutch-born mayor was there to cut the red ribbon in the opening ceremony. This was partially funded by ONGov and partially city funds.
muller877
Senior Member
Based on your experience how should Toronto make the bike lanes safer? And how should drivers turn to make it safer for bikes?
As a driver, when there are no bollards in the way I (1) signal and (2) try to get as far over to the right as possible when there are no bikes. I then wait until the pedestrians are clear and turn right. But of course I have been yelled at by certain miltant cyclists because I am in their way.
The other way is to wait in the auto lane and wait until all cyclists are clear. But of course this is illegal and highly dangerous as there is still a blind spot.
So I have decided that holding my ground in the bike lane is safer for those cyclists who agree on following the law. To the extent they don't want to wait until I turn they can do the highly dangerous action of swerving into oncoming traffic.
But then how about the badly designed bike lanes without the option for auto's to block oncoming bike traffic? Should the lane be designed better? Maybe removing bollards so cars can assume the lane? Should there be dedicated lights for autos to turn right? How should they be designed better so that there are no more accidents like this?
amnesiajune
Senior Member
This is what you're supposed to do.
Oddpie
New Member
Dear Muller, contrary to your assertion that it is dangerous for cyclists to "swerve" left out into traffic on a car right turn, please see attached the city cycle map recommending exactly that.
Anyway the City has put up several "car yield to bike" signs up on the cycle tracks, at least on Richmond, but I find it's still safer to turn left around a right turning car as it is too unpredictable to be in their blind spot.
It works. I have never in my life been hit by a right turning car after 10+ years of cycling using this method. Same thing with dooring following the spacing recommendations in the bike map.
I also find the yield to bike signs confusing in terms of interpreting the picture!
Finally here's a Globe article on the right turn bike lane situation: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glo...way-in-designated-bike-lanes/article34015444/
Anyway the City has put up several "car yield to bike" signs up on the cycle tracks, at least on Richmond, but I find it's still safer to turn left around a right turning car as it is too unpredictable to be in their blind spot.
It works. I have never in my life been hit by a right turning car after 10+ years of cycling using this method. Same thing with dooring following the spacing recommendations in the bike map.
I also find the yield to bike signs confusing in terms of interpreting the picture!
Finally here's a Globe article on the right turn bike lane situation: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glo...way-in-designated-bike-lanes/article34015444/
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