Last year their average attendance was 29,189. Hamilton's average was 20,784.
Exactly! 29,189 is pathetic for a city pushing 6,000,000. Regina's average attendance last year was higher than that and there's only 200,000 people in the entire CMA of Regina. The Argonauts will do ok, but is that really satisfactory? A population that's in tune with a team should be the goal. 30,000 out of 6,000,000 ensures viability, but it's hardly impressive.
We really should be aiming to build the Argonauts into a franchise that always sells out Rogers Centre coupled with a 30,000 person waiting list for season's tickets. Build the team to the point where game day is a big deal right across metro, where players are revered and idolized by kids, and where the city comes to a halt Grey Cup day. It's going to take a lot of time, money, and a broad based reconnection between the team and the people of Toronto to get there. Strong bonds like that between Torontonians and their football team haven't existed here since the 70s. There is lots of work to be done.
Great exaggerations.
First of all, the Argos are doing just fine. They have a strong base, and in 2007 they had their highest average attendance figures since 1992 (30,000 people/game). I don't know what last year's figures were, but they can't be far off. They also have owners that are very committed to the community and the team. So, you can forget this "no one cares about the Argos" business. Also, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that an NFL team in Toronto would cause people to "throw away" the Argos. The two can exist, and in fact some smart partnerships between the two could result in a stronger Argos presence. For example, if you buy season tickets to the NFL team you'd need to buy season tickets for the argos, or something along those lines. Rogers and Tanenbaum probably don't want to be considered the group that ended the CFL, so they're not about to let that happen.
Second, hockey is going to die in Toronto? Seriously, maybe one of the stupidest comments I've ever read here. You have a team in an ever-expanding market where divorce settlements revolve around who gets to keep the season tickets. Oh and there's a 20 year waiting list for seasons tickets (so that takes you to at least 2029). You make it sound like because people like soccer and cricket, that they can't like the Leafs or hockey, and that's just not true.
In that nonsense, I'm going to bring it back to one point that you inadvertently made. The Argos probably need to move to a stadium that is CFL suitable. Obviously a move to BMO won't and shouldn't happen, but do they have other options that haven't already been addressed (such as Varsity and York U...)?
You seem to be missing the whole point of the argument. I'm not disputing that the Argonauts are without a strong fan base or that no one cares about the Argonauts.
I haven't said that any where. You have to have blinders on to believe that Toronto hasn't largely tuned out though. You may consider 30,000 fine, but that's not good attendance for a city of 6,000,000. Walk into any sports bar in the city, gym, high school, etc. and the majority of people don't follow the Argonauts. That is a huge problem. You may think that 30,000 a game equates to things being fine, but that's plain fool hardy.
I tried finding a sports bar on Yonge Street to watch the Grey Cup last year. Most people walking up and down the street were oblivious that it was even taking place. I went into Hoops Sports bar and had to request one channel be turned to the Grey Cup from a regular NFL game. When the general population are that tuned out and a sports bar is packed to watch regular NFL while the CFL championship is going on there is a massive problem whether you care to admit it or not.
No where have I said that hockey is going to die in Toronto either. You're making ridiculous assumptions and leaps of logic as to what I'm arguing that just don't exist. I clearly indicated that I was portraying a mentality that exists today for football, and making the point that no cultural pursuit is immune from a decline in popularity. I even put it in quotes to show that I was portraying a view point of a segment of society that exists today. That you are unaware of these views doesn't mean that these views don't exist and pointing out that some people hold these views doesn't mean that I do.
I don't hold those views. I'm not sure why you're suggesting that I do.
The point is that cultural shifts are occurring and that popularity today doesn't ensure popularity 30 years from now. If you want to read that to mean that I'm arguing that hockey is going to die, go ahead, but you're reading things that I clearly haven't written or argued. There are beneficial lessons to be learned from careful observation.
In the future, please read what is written and attempt to grasp the message that is being conveyed rather than reaching conclusions that aren't there at all. Stupidity is not understanding what is being conveyed to you.
The Argos probably need to move to a stadium that is CFL suitable.
That's the only sensible point you made. The Rogers Centre is an awful place to watch football. The Argonauts need a facility that is better suited to their needs, and a stadium design that allows for it to grow with the hopeful resurgence in popularity of the team amongst Torontonians. It needs to be a 35,000 seat stadium with good sight lines, no athletics track, and located centrally. Perhaps, in 10 years bring it up to 45,000; 10 years later, another 10,000, and so on.
