[denfromoakvillemilton]

Goals for this year:

Deal and new tracks/construction to extend Midway and Reverse Peak service to Mt Pleasant
Completion of tracks outside West Harbour
Shovels in the ground for Bowmanville
More second track laid down in Toronto and Aurora
At least try to talk to CP about various things

Anyone disagree?

 

[cplchanb]

Goals for this year:

Deal and new tracks/construction to extend Midway and Reverse Peak service to Mt Pleasant
Completion of tracks outside West Harbour
Shovels in the ground for Bowmanville
More second track laid down in Toronto and Aurora
At least try to talk to CP about various things

Anyone disagree?

yup they need to get going on finishing the double track for the stoufville line. no point for all those new stations if theyre just going to sit on their hands.

 

[reaperexpress]

Goals for this year:

Deal and new tracks/construction to extend Midway and Reverse Peak service to Mt Pleasant
Completion of tracks outside West Harbour
Shovels in the ground for Bowmanville
More second track laid down in Toronto and Aurora
At least try to talk to CP about various things

Anyone disagree?

I'd like them to achieve the following goals in 2024:

West Harbour track connection in service.
Double-track between Kennedy and Unionville in service. It's been sitting nearly complete for a few months already, but the hold up is that bridge under the CP line and over Highland Creek. GO probably won't increase off-peak Stouffville frequency yet due to the track restrictions for Ontario Line construction, but we could at least get counter-peak service to Unionville. Evening train service will presumably be restored when that work is done as well.
Quad track through Weston Station in sevice. Construction is already complete but I don't think it's in service yet.
Double track in Breslau complete. It is progressing well, looks like it could be done by the end of the year.
Double track in Guelph complete. It is also well underway, it looks like most of the work needed now is on the western portion from the west side of Downtown to the Hanlon Parkway.
Double track in Acton complete. This one is just starting, but it seems fairly straightforward so maybe they could finish it within the year. I don't think they're adding a second platform at the station.
Second platform in Georgetown starting construction. This is required for counter-peak service to Kitchener. They can run 1 train per hour per direction off-peak using the Breslau and Acton sidings (stopping in Acton every 2 hours), but to accommodate counter-peak service encountering the existing 2 tph peak-direction service they need a second pair of passing locations in Guelph and Georgetown. A second through platform a Georgetown was originally planned to be built at the same time as the above three double track segments but it got delayed significantly for some unknown reason.
Double track from Rutherford to Maple starting construction. Currently double track ends just north of Maple and just south of Rutherford. Rutherford already has a second track that isn't connected to anything, and Maple has a second platform under construction. Work should start in 2024 to connect the double track segments together, creating a 13.5 km section of uninterrupted double track from north of Downsview Park to south of King City. This wouldn't be sufficient for half-hourly off-peak service, but it could allow the 3-hourly Barrie trips to run separately from the hourly Aurora local trains, eliminating the awkward deadhead moves that are currently required to accommodate the Barrie trains. So there would be 1 tph to Aurora, and a separate express train to Barrie every 3 hours.
Second platform at Mount Joy starting construction. This is required for counter-peak service to Mt Joy.
Restore 15-minute Lakeshore service. In Fall 2021 there was local service every 15 minutes or better from Oakville to Oshawa, but this was cancelled in early 2022. If they find 4tph too restrictive on Lakeshore East due to Ontario Line construction they should at least run 4 tph off-peak from Oakville to Union. One or both of the existing hourly off-peak services could run express to improve travel times between Hamilton and Toronto as well as for transferring Milton bus passengers.
Double track through Kennedy Station designed. It currently ends just north of the station, and the station has two platforms, but there is no control point on the south side of the station which would allow them to use both platforms. Such a control point should be installed, which will involve some creativity to incorporate the freight siding which is not currently signalled at all. Hopefully they can design it in 2024 and get shovels in the ground by the end of the year.
Quad track through Mount Dennis station designed. The quad track currently ends north of Mount Dennis pending construction of the fourth (east side) platform, which started construction later than the other three. But with all the days on Line 5 construction, that platform looks like it will be complete around the time of the station opening. So the quad track should be brought through the station to increase the margin of error for trains scheduled to meet on the new quad-tracked section through Weston. I'd like them to get shovels in the ground by the end of 2024.

 

[T3G]

Two questions about Kennedy GO:

-what is envisioned to allow a connection between one platform and the other? I haven't seen anything, but I didn't think to look very hard when I was last there in November so I didn't notice if they were carving out a tunnel to the second platform in the underpass.

-is access planned from the temporary TTC terminal right onto the second platform?

 

[jcam]

....
Extend quad track through Mount Dennis station. The quad track currently ends north of Mount Dennis pending construction of the fourth (east side) platform, which started construction later than the other three. But with all the days on Line 5 construction, that platform looks like it will be complete around the time of the station opening. So the quad track should be brought through the station to increase the margin of error for trains scheduled to meet on the new quad-tracked section through Weston. I'd like them to get shovels in the ground by the end of 202It

It's still only 3 tracks under Islington, and it seems the City just redid that overpass. Is there an intention for it to be quad track there, or will it always pinch then widen to go through the 401 tunnels?

 

[crs1026]

I'd like them to achieve the following goals in 2024:

West Harbour track connection like you mentioned.
Double-track between Kennedy and Unionville. It's been sitting nearly complete for a few months already, but the hold up is that bridge under the CP line and over Highland Creek. GO probably won't increase off-peak Stouffville frequency yet due to the track restrictions for Ontario Line construction, but we could at least get counter-peak service to Unionville. Evening train service will presumably be restored when that work is done as well.
Quad track through Weston Station. Construction is already complete but I don't think it's in service yet. That will presumably happen this year.
Double track in Breslau. It is progressing well, looks like it could be done by the end of the year.
Double track in Guelph. It is also well underway, it looks like most of the work needed now is on the western portion from Downtown to the Hanlon Parkway.
Double track in Acton. This one is just starting, but it seems fairly straightforward so maybe they could finish it within the year. I don't think they're adding a second platform at the station.
Second platform in Georgetown. This is required for counter-peak service to Kitchener. They can run 1 train per hour per direction off-peak using the Breslau and Acton sidings (stopping in Acton every 2 hours), but to accommodate counter-peak service encountering the existing 2 tph peak-direction service they need a second pair of passing locations in Guelph and Georgetown. A second through platform a Georgetown was originally planned to be built at the same time as the above three double track segments but it got delayed significantly for some unknown reason. Construction should at least start in 2024.
Double track from Rutherford to Maple. Currently double track ends just north of Maple and just south of Rutherford. Rutherford already has a second track that isn't connected to anything, and Maple has a second platform under construction. Work should start in 2024 to connect the double track segments together, creating a 13.5 km section of uninterrupted double track from north of Downsview Park to south of King City. This wouldn't be sufficient for half-hourly off-peak service, but it could allow the 3-hourly Barrie trips to run separately from the hourly Aurora local trains, eliminating the awkward deadhead moves that are currently required to accommodate the Barrie trains. So there would be 1 tph to Aurora, and a separate express train to Barrie every 3 hours. Construction should at least start in 2024.
Second platform at Mount Joy. This is required for counter-peak service to Mt Joy. I'd like them to get shovels in the ground in 2024.
Restore 15-minute Lakeshore service. In Fall 2021 there was local service every 15 minutes or better from Oakville to Oshawa, but this was cancelled in early 2022. If they find 4tph too restrictive on Lakeshore East due to Ontario Line construction they should at least run 4 tph off-peak from Oakville to Union. One or both of the existing hourly off-peak services could run express to improve travel times between Hamilton and Toronto as well as for transferring Milton bus passengers.
Extend double track through Kennedy Station. It currently ends just north of the station, and the station has two platforms, but there is no control point on the south side of the station which would allow them to use both platforms. Such a control point should be installed, which will involve some creativity to incorporate the freight siding which is not currently signalled at all. Hopefully they can design it in 2024 and get shovels in the ground by the end of the year.
Extend quad track through Mount Dennis station. The quad track currently ends north of Mount Dennis pending construction of the fourth (east side) platform, which started construction later than the other three. But with all the days on Line 5 construction, that platform looks like it will be complete around the time of the station opening. So the quad track should be brought through the station to increase the margin of error for trains scheduled to meet on the new quad-tracked section through Weston. I'd like them to get shovels in the ground by the end of 2024

To that excellent list I would add -

Improve signalling through the Georgetown GO station, including that second platform track

Link Strachan with Parkdale on the Barrie line, separate from the Kitchener Line - another inexplicable bit of missing track

Install Signals Clifton to Niagara Falls including the siding track at Niagara Falls

Shovels in the ground on Woodbine Station, if necessary by cancelling the TOD and any associated development "gives" and just building the station with taxpayer money

The only thing on that list that I am dubious about is the double tracking through Kennedy station. For reasons that I do not understand, GO installed (and recently cut in) the control point at the end of double track just north of the station. I doubt that they will admit an obvious error and incurr the costs to shift the control point....

- Paul

 

[reaperexpress]

It's still only 3 tracks under Islington, and it seems the City just redid that overpass. Is there an intention for it to be quad track there, or will it always pinch then widen to go through the 401 tunnels?

The quad track segment that they built last year is from just east of Islington to just south of Weston Station.

The segment west of Islington will be part of a completely separate project which involves demolishing Etobicoke North station and realigning the tracks to use the new tunnels. Under Islington the plan is to use the space under road overpass to the south of the southern support pillars.

Extract from Metrolinx OnCorridor Public Information Centre #3 Draft conceptual design roll plans, November 2020:

 

[drum118]

Two questions about Kennedy GO:

-what is envisioned to allow a connection between one platform and the other? I haven't seen anything, but I didn't think to look very hard when I was last there in November so I didn't notice if they were carving out a tunnel to the second platform in the underpass.

-is access planned from the temporary TTC terminal right onto the second platform?

There are supposed to be 2 tunnels with elevators.

I'd like them to achieve the following goals in 2024:

West Harbour track connection like you mentioned.
Double-track between Kennedy and Unionville. It's been sitting nearly complete for a few months already, but the hold up is that bridge under the CP line and over Highland Creek. GO probably won't increase off-peak Stouffville frequency yet due to the track restrictions for Ontario Line construction, but we could at least get counter-peak service to Unionville. Evening train service will presumably be restored when that work is done as well.
Quad track through Weston Station. Construction is already complete but I don't think it's in service yet. That will presumably happen this year.
Double track in Breslau. It is progressing well, looks like it could be done by the end of the year.
Double track in Guelph. It is also well underway, it looks like most of the work needed now is on the western portion from Downtown to the Hanlon Parkway.
Double track in Acton. This one is just starting, but it seems fairly straightforward so maybe they could finish it within the year. I don't think they're adding a second platform at the station.
Second platform in Georgetown. This is required for counter-peak service to Kitchener. They can run 1 train per hour per direction off-peak using the Breslau and Acton sidings (stopping in Acton every 2 hours), but to accommodate counter-peak service encountering the existing 2 tph peak-direction service they need a second pair of passing locations in Guelph and Georgetown. A second through platform a Georgetown was originally planned to be built at the same time as the above three double track segments but it got delayed significantly for some unknown reason. Construction should at least start in 2024.
Double track from Rutherford to Maple. Currently double track ends just north of Maple and just south of Rutherford. Rutherford already has a second track that isn't connected to anything, and Maple has a second platform under construction. Work should start in 2024 to connect the double track segments together, creating a 13.5 km section of uninterrupted double track from north of Downsview Park to south of King City. This wouldn't be sufficient for half-hourly off-peak service, but it could allow the 3-hourly Barrie trips to run separately from the hourly Aurora local trains, eliminating the awkward deadhead moves that are currently required to accommodate the Barrie trains. So there would be 1 tph to Aurora, and a separate express train to Barrie every 3 hours. Construction should at least start in 2024.
Second platform at Mount Joy. This is required for counter-peak service to Mt Joy. I'd like them to get shovels in the ground in 2024.
Restore 15-minute Lakeshore service. In Fall 2021 there was local service every 15 minutes or better from Oakville to Oshawa, but this was cancelled in early 2022. If they find 4tph too restrictive on Lakeshore East due to Ontario Line construction they should at least run 4 tph off-peak from Oakville to Union. One or both of the existing hourly off-peak services could run express to improve travel times between Hamilton and Toronto as well as for transferring Milton bus passengers.
Extend double track through Kennedy Station. It currently ends just north of the station, and the station has two platforms, but there is no control point on the south side of the station which would allow them to use both platforms. Such a control point should be installed, which will involve some creativity to incorporate the freight siding which is not currently signalled at all. Hopefully they can design it in 2024 and get shovels in the ground by the end of the year.
Extend quad track through Mount Dennis station. The quad track currently ends north of Mount Dennis pending construction of the fourth (east side) platform, which started construction later than the other three. But with all the days on Line 5 construction, that platform looks like it will be complete around the time of the station opening. So the quad track should be brought through the station to increase the margin of error for trains scheduled to meet on the new quad-tracked section through Weston. I'd like them to get shovels in the ground by the end of 2024

I recalled there are four tracks north of Mount Dennis to the interchange block east of Islington Ave where it becomes three. It will remain that way until the Woodbine station is built alone with the removal of the Etobicoke Station There are four tracks to the Black Creek bridge and will remain three south of it until St Clair and Bloor stations work are completed for the four tracks.

Four tracks in place south of Bramalea station to west of the plan Woodbine Station. The north fourth track loops to CN Halton Sub west of Bramalea Station. Haven't looked at Bramalea third track in a year to see where things are for it.

There are a few locations on the Stouffville line to be double track. The second track is in place at Kennedy Station but needs a switch at the south end as noted and connection at the north end where the block signal is. Until a design in place how the line is to connect to the Lakeshore line, the second platform is not needed with hourly service as well lengthen it. Both platforms is still not completed. There is a missing section the last time I looked at Milliken at the south end. Then there is the bridge by CP as noted. Can't speak to the rest of the line as it been years since I looked at it.

One place I like to see three track is over Georgetown Credit River with the third bridge place on the piers for it and to Mount Pleasant as it will keep GO out of CN way in this area. The Georgetown station needs to be rebuilt for two through tracks with a centre platform or side ones based on the redesign of the station and yard area.

As for West Harbour, the connection to the third track as well install the third track depends on CN timetable and crew to do the work. It would help the NF train a lot.

 

[Coolibop]

reaperexpress said:

I'd like them to achieve the following goals in 2024:

Restore 15-minute Lakeshore service. In Fall 2021 there was local service every 15 minutes or better from Oakville to Oshawa, but this was cancelled in early 2022. If they find 4tph too restrictive on Lakeshore East due to Ontario Line construction they should at least run 4 tph off-peak from Oakville to Union. One or both of the existing hourly off-peak services could run express to improve travel times between Hamilton and Toronto as well as for transferring Milton bus passengers.

To that excellent list I would add -
...

I believe the express service on LSE was also slated to return this summer.

 

[crs1026]

Just to clarify:

On the Kitchener line, west from Wice (MP 13.4 - the junction where the UPE branches off to Pearson Airport) there are currently only two signalled tracks plus an unsignalled service track on the north side.

The service track is signalled only through the interlocking at Airway (MP 15.7). It diverges eastwards to the CN Halton Sub at Malport, with no route westwards after the crossovers at Airway.

The signalling that was installed during GTS has circuitry roughed in to add signals for that third track, but it's unclear how it would tie in west of Airway.

So really when we talk about quad tracking the Weston Sub, we are only talking about the track east of Wice. West of there, the third track will be useful when service is upgraded, but it isn't in place yet.

- Paul

 

[reaperexpress]

I believe the express service on LSE was also slated to return this summer.

The argument for eliminating the LSE express was that the corridor is temporarily reduced to 2 tracks due to Ontario Line construction. And the line is still down to 2 tracks at the moment so I don't see why they would restore it yet. That said, the remaining triple track between Scarborough Junction and Guildwood is plenty long enough for an express train to overtake the local in front without delaying it, so if they need more than 4tph of capacity during the peak hour, they could totally add in a couple express trips.

Via would need to use the local track in the counter-peak direction (stopping at Guildwood) and would need to use the express track in the peak direction (skipping Guildwood) but in my opinion they should already be doing that anyway to minimize conflicts between GO and VIA.

 

[Coolibop]

Another missed deadline? I'd love to see a dashboard of projects finished according to plan. It feels like it would be mostly red (missed).

Metrolinx still advertise express trains resume in 7 months on the LSE, but sadly I feel they probably won't say anything until someone pushes or asks after the due date as has happened several times with other projects.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'd like them to achieve the following goals in 2024:

West Harbour track connection in service.
Double-track between Kennedy and Unionville in service. It's been sitting nearly complete for a few months already, but the hold up is that bridge under the CP line and over Highland Creek. GO probably won't increase off-peak Stouffville frequency yet due to the track restrictions for Ontario Line construction, but we could at least get counter-peak service to Unionville. Evening train service will presumably be restored when that work is done as well.
Quad track through Weston Station in sevice. Construction is already complete but I don't think it's in service yet.
Double track in Breslau complete. It is progressing well, looks like it could be done by the end of the year.
Double track in Guelph complete. It is also well underway, it looks like most of the work needed now is on the western portion from the west side of Downtown to the Hanlon Parkway.
Double track in Acton complete. This one is just starting, but it seems fairly straightforward so maybe they could finish it within the year. I don't think they're adding a second platform at the station.
Second platform in Georgetown starting construction. This is required for counter-peak service to Kitchener. They can run 1 train per hour per direction off-peak using the Breslau and Acton sidings (stopping in Acton every 2 hours), but to accommodate counter-peak service encountering the existing 2 tph peak-direction service they need a second pair of passing locations in Guelph and Georgetown. A second through platform a Georgetown was originally planned to be built at the same time as the above three double track segments but it got delayed significantly for some unknown reason.
Double track from Rutherford to Maple starting construction. Currently double track ends just north of Maple and just south of Rutherford. Rutherford already has a second track that isn't connected to anything, and Maple has a second platform under construction. Work should start in 2024 to connect the double track segments together, creating a 13.5 km section of uninterrupted double track from north of Downsview Park to south of King City. This wouldn't be sufficient for half-hourly off-peak service, but it could allow the 3-hourly Barrie trips to run separately from the hourly Aurora local trains, eliminating the awkward deadhead moves that are currently required to accommodate the Barrie trains. So there would be 1 tph to Aurora, and a separate express train to Barrie every 3 hours.
Second platform at Mount Joy starting construction. This is required for counter-peak service to Mt Joy.
Restore 15-minute Lakeshore service. In Fall 2021 there was local service every 15 minutes or better from Oakville to Oshawa, but this was cancelled in early 2022. If they find 4tph too restrictive on Lakeshore East due to Ontario Line construction they should at least run 4 tph off-peak from Oakville to Union. One or both of the existing hourly off-peak services could run express to improve travel times between Hamilton and Toronto as well as for transferring Milton bus passengers.
Double track through Kennedy Station designed. It currently ends just north of the station, and the station has two platforms, but there is no control point on the south side of the station which would allow them to use both platforms. Such a control point should be installed, which will involve some creativity to incorporate the freight siding which is not currently signalled at all. Hopefully they can design it in 2024 and get shovels in the ground by the end of the year.
Quad track through Mount Dennis station designed. The quad track currently ends north of Mount Dennis pending construction of the fourth (east side) platform, which started construction later than the other three. But with all the days on Line 5 construction, that platform looks like it will be complete around the time of the station opening. So the quad track should be brought through the station to increase the margin of error for trains scheduled to meet on the new quad-tracked section through Weston. I'd like them to get shovels in the ground by the end of 2024.

This is a fantastic list. I even forgot Stouffville.

To that excellent list I would add -

Improve signalling through the Georgetown GO station, including that second platform track

Link Strachan with Parkdale on the Barrie line, separate from the Kitchener Line - another inexplicable bit of missing track

Install Signals Clifton to Niagara Falls including the siding track at Niagara Falls

Shovels in the ground on Woodbine Station, if necessary by cancelling the TOD and any associated development "gives" and just building the station with taxpayer money

The only thing on that list that I am dubious about is the double tracking through Kennedy station. For reasons that I do not understand, GO installed (and recently cut in) the control point at the end of double track just north of the station. I doubt that they will admit an obvious error and incurr the costs to shift the control point....

- Paul

Always come with the goods Paul.

 

[Fritter]

Maybe with our wish lists completed, now we can contemplate what are the realistic projects that will be completed and shall I say "in service" by Dec 2024?

 

[innsertnamehere]

My hope is we would see this year:
1. Mount Dennis Station open
2. 30-minute service to Hamilton
3. 15-minute service to Oakville
4. filling of the off-peak gaps in the Barrie schedule
5. Evening Stouffville service

Will we get that? Who knows. I feel like they are all possible.

My understanding is that 2025 is when we should expect to start seeing bigger changes though. A lot of them may not happen until then.