[drum118]

Ridership decrease for the Milton line is caused by buses not going to Union anymore and forcing riders to use Kipling that will take them another 40 minute trip on the subway to Union as well an extra fare along with 2 transfers. Quality of service for the rail service and no all-day service 7 days a week are forcing riders to rethink their travel options to either use the car to Toronto or go to a GO station on another line that offers all day service and quality of service.

If the 3rd track to MIlton was built by 2011 without an EA, there would have been problems for it in Streetsville, more so for a 4th track. There needs to be 3 grade separation in Streetsville. with Mississauga Rd been the problem one of them as it's on a curb and required major tearing down of the area along with relocating roads.

Then there is CP Cargo yard and the shifting of Meadowville GO Station.

At some point, ML and CP need to sit down and talk how to fit 4 tracks in CP corridor as well the cost to do it. It is in ML best interest to have GO service on the north side with Cooksville and Lisgar stations already setup for that as well Erindale, Streetsville and Kipling stations.

Need a fly-under at Humber to get to the south side.

It will require 2 new bridges over Hurontario and they will hide the existing 2 now. There are 2 required for Etobicoke Creek and a few other locations.

Cost is not going to be cheap and it will be about 3-4 years to do it in phases.

 

[Bojaxs]

Ridership decrease for the Milton line is caused by buses not going to Union anymore and forcing riders to use Kipling that will take them another 40 minute trip on the subway to Union as well an extra fare along with 2 transfers. Quality of service for the rail service and no all-day service 7 days a week are forcing riders to rethink their travel options to either use the car to Toronto or go to a GO station on another line that offers all day service and quality of service.

If the 3rd track to MIlton was built by 2011 without an EA, there would have been problems for it in Streetsville, more so for a 4th track. There needs to be 3 grade separation in Streetsville. with Mississauga Rd been the problem one of them as it's on a curb and required major tearing down of the area along with relocating roads.

Then there is CP Cargo yard and the shifting of Meadowville GO Station.

At some point, ML and CP need to sit down and talk how to fit 4 tracks in CP corridor as well the cost to do it. It is in ML best interest to have GO service on the north side with Cooksville and Lisgar stations already setup for that as well Erindale, Streetsville and Kipling stations.

Need a fly-under at Humber to get to the south side.

It will require 2 new bridges over Hurontario and they will hide the existing 2 now. There are 2 required for Etobicoke Creek and a few other locations.

Cost is not going to be cheap and it will be about 3-4 years to do it in phases.

It all comes back to the freight bypasses. The only way to improve service on the Milton line is to get CP to divert their main line to go north around Brampton, and then towards their Intermodal yard in Vaughan. The 413 bypass.

 

[drum118]

View attachment 528919View attachment 528920

It all comes back to the freight bypasses. The only way to improve service on the Milton line is to get CP to divert their main line to go north around Brampton, and then towards their Intermodal yard in Vaughan. The 413 bypass.

Not going to happen as it's too costly and taking over a decade or 2 to do.

You are putting all your eggs in one basket to have s system melt down if a major issue happens on that joint corridor. More so, who is paying for it as it has nothing to do with CP and CN in the first place??? To do it will have to be covered by the province 100%, with Markham totally opposed to the plan in the first place.

You can put 4-5 tracks in that corridor today with no issues at all doing so, other than adding a 5th bridge to the 4 track bridges already in place.

Only will cost between $2.3 to $3 billion to do it as well when. If it got built like the 2018 election platform, it would be in service today.

 

[reaperexpress]

View attachment 528919View attachment 528920

It all comes back to the freight bypasses. The only way to improve service on the Milton line is to get CP to divert their main line to go north around Brampton, and then towards their Intermodal yard in Vaughan. The 413 bypass.

That is a way of providing space to GO, but it is not the only way. The CPKC Galt corridor is wide enough for 4 tracks, so it is possible to build 2 tracks for GO alongside 2 tracks for CPKC.

 

[Bojaxs]

You are putting all your eggs in one basket to have s system melt down if a major issue happens on that joint corridor. More so, who is paying for it as it has nothing to do with CP and CN in the first place???

Not sure what you mean by any of this.
Who pays for the bypass will be a difficult to determine. Negotiations will have to take place prior to construction.

To do it will have to be covered by the province 100%, with Markham totally opposed to the plan in the first place.

The 413 bypass doesn't come anywhere near Markham. I'm not talking about constructing a bypass around the entire GTA. Just the western portion to open up the Milton line.

You can put 4-5 tracks in that corridor today with no issues at all doing so, other than adding a 5th bridge to the 4 track bridges already in place.

If we're talking about parallel running, dedicated tracks for GO trains such as Lakeshore East, then that's great. If we're talking about adding more tracks but GO and CP still having to share these tracks, then "No". Spending tons of money for what's basically half measures.

 

[drum118]

Not sure what you mean by any of this.
Who pays for the bypass will be a difficult to determine. Negotiations will have to take place prior to construction.

The 413 bypass doesn't come anywhere near Markham. I'm not talking about constructing a bypass around the entire GTA. Just the western portion to open up the Milton line.


If we're talking about parallel running, dedicated tracks for GO trains such as Lakeshore East, then that's great. If we're talking about adding more tracks but GO and CP still having to share these tracks, then "No". Spending tons of money for what's basically half measures.

If there is a major derailment where CN and CP run in the same corridor, it shuts both systems down for days or longer. Since CN stills has running rights over the Lakeshore line as well the Richmond Hill line, this means GO trains will have to deal with CN trains that will have an impact on GO service,

I don't know if CP has running rights on the Lakeshore lines anymore, but they would retain the running rights on all other lines.

There been a debate who will fund this bypass and only have to look at Winnipeg who have given up on trying to relocate CN complex since they have to pay 100% to do so. The same thing will happen for the bypass as well.

The bypass will use CN corridor from one end of the city to the other end that will see CP not using the Milton line nor the corridor though the city of Toronto as well Markham. That bypass has to be a 4 tracks corridor requiring overpasses and underpass to be rebuilt to handle the 4 tracks as well along the corridor itself. A number of grade separations will have to take place to deal with 2 systems running a lot more trains than what takes place today.

GO tracks on the MIlton line will not be like Lakeshore east as there is not enough room to do it in a number of locations. You are left with the option of having CP using 1 of the 2 GO tracks from time to time and will have a small impact on GO service at times. Where you can put in that 5th track, it allows CP to use 3 of them as needed.

 

[Bojaxs]

If there is a major derailment where CN and CP run in the same corridor, it shuts both systems down for days or longer. Since CN stills has running rights over the Lakeshore line as well the Richmond Hill line, this means GO trains will have to deal with CN trains that will have an impact on GO service,

I don't know if CP has running rights on the Lakeshore lines anymore, but they would retain the running rights on all other lines.

CN will use the 407 freight bypass, CP will use the 413 bypass. At no point do they share the same corridor.
After the construction of a 413 freight bypass, CP will still maintain running rights on the Milton line, but GO trains will get priority. Maybe even make a deal where CP can run freight trains on the Milton line at night when GO trains are not active. If there is a derailment on the 413 bypass, then CP can still use the Milton line to continue moving freight across the GTA.

 

[crs1026]

There been a debate who will fund this bypass and only have to look at Winnipeg who have given up on trying to relocate CN complex since they have to pay 100% to do so. The same thing will happen for the bypass as well.

This point is important and needs more profile. The reality is that CN and CP have pressure to move or reconfigure rail lines all over the continent. And they do have projects in various stages of study and design and negotiation. That ties up people and assets and has impacts on operations. Not to mention, they have their own needs and projects to plan (for instance, reconfiguring the Halton Sub to connect to the new intermodal terminal in Milton, improving capacity in the Port of Halifax, in Vancouver, etc etc....)

So, when ML comes to them and says "we have all these great ideas for projects that require you to change your tracks around...." just how much time and effort should we expect them to devote to these? At what price? Out of the goodness of their hearts? At their shareholders' expense? Drop what they are doing and make this job #1?

And when ML changes its designs and its priorities year after year, and keeps coming back with something different, can we blame CP or CN for asking .... is this really your final answer? Can't fault the railways for thinking, let's just drag our heels and maybe they will just go away.

I know from very good authority that CP has studied what it can offer ML (and what the limits might be) for service to Milton and Cambridge. And what it would take to add capacity to meet ML's druthers.

This discussion really does reek of a mentality where the GTA is the center of the universe, with needs that cry to be met immediately. I can't fault the railways for saying "take a number".... and if ML changes its spec yet again, they go to the back of the line.

- Paul

 

[emphurent]

Just a bit of year end update for the Kitchener Line between Kitchener and Georgetown.

The 3km second track is all laid, maintenance locos parked on the tracks and nearly ready for use pending signals.

This photo is of the recently finished storage track further up, which will house the maintenance locos:

Guelph station is still a bit away, I'm not sure the tracks are actually hooked up at one end yet, though as someone posted there are new signals here.

The Rockwood storage track has not started yet.

But early works are already underway for the passing track at Acton GO, clearing is finished and various electrical is already well underway.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Some updates from today on the West Harbour GO track tie-in. This is one of my favourite GO projects right now.

Grading between existing tracks and "new" corridor now levelled, and James Street bridge reinforcement complete:

Liuna Station retaining wall done and grading looking good:

Here is a shots from the reverse angle at John:

New signal on the CN tracks at John:

Looking towards Confederation at John:

Looking towards West Harbour from the Mary Street pedestrian bridge:

Opposite direction from the Mary bridge:

From Ferguson Ave looking towards Confederation. Note the new signals at Ferguson and the re-built crossings at Wellington Street and Victoria Ave (both road works and crossing arms have been upgraded). Hopefully more crossings through Hamilton get upgrades so trains can go faster.

 

[Bojaxs]

Some updates from today on the West Harbour GO track tie-in. This is one of my favourite GO projects right now.

Grading between existing tracks and "new" corridor now levelled, and James Street bridge reinforcement complete:
View attachment 530404

Liuna Station retaining wall done and grading looking good:
View attachment 530405

Here is a shots from the reverse angle at John:
View attachment 530406View attachment 530407

New signal on the CN tracks at John:
View attachment 530408

Looking towards Confederation at John:
View attachment 530409

Looking towards West Harbour from the Mary Street pedestrian bridge:
View attachment 530410

Opposite direction from the Mary bridge:
View attachment 530411

From Ferguson Ave looking towards Confederation. Note the new signals at Ferguson and the re-built crossings at Wellington Street and Victoria Ave (both road works and crossing arms have been upgraded). Hopefully more crossings through Hamilton get upgrades so trains can go faster.

View attachment 530412
View attachment 530413

Are there plans to triple track the stretch of track pass West Harbour?

 

[Allandale25]

Some updates from today on the West Harbour GO track tie-in. This is one of my favourite GO projects right now.

Grading between existing tracks and "new" corridor now levelled, and James Street bridge reinforcement complete:
View attachment 530404

Liuna Station retaining wall done and grading looking good:
View attachment 530405

Here is a shots from the reverse angle at John:
View attachment 530406View attachment 530407

New signal on the CN tracks at John:
View attachment 530408

Looking towards Confederation at John:
View attachment 530409

Looking towards West Harbour from the Mary Street pedestrian bridge:
View attachment 530410

Opposite direction from the Mary bridge:
View attachment 530411

From Ferguson Ave looking towards Confederation. Note the new signals at Ferguson and the re-built crossings at Wellington Street and Victoria Ave (both road works and crossing arms have been upgraded). Hopefully more crossings through Hamilton get upgrades so trains can go faster.

View attachment 530412
View attachment 530413

Great shots!

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Are there plans to triple track the stretch of track pass West Harbour?

The third track between West Harbour and Confederation is indefinitely deferred. This work is just a short segment of 3rd track and the tie-in.

This portion of track isn’t that busy so the lack of 3rd track the entire way to Confed shouldn’t be the end of the world.

 

[drum118]

Dec 31
Been a long time I visited Cooksville GO station until I took the train into TO Sunday night.

Noticed a solar panel tie to a camera at the east end of the station and the ramp area that can be rotated by the looks of it. The camera is well east of the platform and the first I have seen for any station to date

 

[innsertnamehere]

that's a total station - a measurement laser, not a camera. Not sure what they would be using it for though.