[Toronto1834]

For me the biggest frustration on the Kitchener line is the lack of movement on the west half of the Guelph siding. Breslau is complete, Acton sounds like it's going to be underway shortly (and it seems pretty simple given that there was already a siding there before), so the Guelph siding is the last piece of the puzzle that is needed to enable at least 1 counter-peak trip to Kitchener, and hourly service between Kitchener and Guelph. Yet even though the Guelph second platform is complete and the east end of the second track is connected to the mainline, there does not seem to be any movement on connecting the west end of the second track to the mainline to enable trains to actually use the new platform they just built.

Weston has always been a bit of a mystery to me, since it was always possible to run 30-minute service on the tracks we already had. Weston is a fairly short passing segment so it does make more sense to just keep using the corridor as a single 3-track line rather than a 2-track line plus a 1-track line with a passing siding at Weston. If the 4th track were extended south through Mount Dennis (whose 4th platform is nearing completion anyway) the passing location would be a lot more reliable, but there doesn't seem to be any interlocking immediately south of Mount Dennis where they could tie the 4th track back in. So then they'd either need to add a new interlocking or just wait until they can get the 4th track all the way down to Bloor, and I suspect they do the latter and just wait.

I agree this is very frustrating!

If you look at this update posted by Metrolinx this week, it notes that :
"The second upgrade recently completed is a new second platform at Guelph Central GO Station

The new platform helps expand GO Train service on the Kitchener Line by creating the infrastructure needed to run two-way, all-day service between Kitchener and Union Station in Toronto."

However, if you look farther down:
"Plans for the next phase of work are well underway. This package is expected to go out for construction companies to bid on in 2024 and includes:
Passing track at Guelph GO Station"

This would seem to suggest that the west half of the Guelph siding is part of a different package of work that has not even put out for bids yet. If true, this makes no sense to me.

 

[Metroscapes]

I agree this is very frustrating!

If you look at this update posted by Metrolinx this week, it notes that :
"The second upgrade recently completed is a new second platform at Guelph Central GO Station

The new platform helps expand GO Train service on the Kitchener Line by creating the infrastructure needed to run two-way, all-day service between Kitchener and Union Station in Toronto."

However, if you look farther down:
"Plans for the next phase of work are well underway. This package is expected to go out for construction companies to bid on in 2024 and includes:
Passing track at Guelph GO Station"

This would seem to suggest that the west half of the Guelph siding is part of a different package of work that has not even put out for bids yet. If true, this makes no sense to me.

It's extra frustrating when there was a second track that CN ripped up years ago, and VIA commissioned CTC that plopped a signal right in the way (near the former crossing at Dublin). The need for two tracks was forseeable then, and two government agencies couldn't work with a Class I on the cusp of a purchase to do the work in one shot.

 

[drum118]

For me the biggest frustration on the Kitchener line is the lack of movement on the west half of the Guelph siding. Breslau is complete, Acton sounds like it's going to be underway shortly (and it seems pretty simple given that there was already a siding there before), so the Guelph siding is the last piece of the puzzle that is needed to enable at least 1 counter-peak trip to Kitchener, and hourly service between Kitchener and Guelph. Yet even though the Guelph second platform is complete and the east end of the second track is connected to the mainline, there does not seem to be any movement on connecting the west end of the second track to the mainline to enable trains to actually use the new platform they just built.

Weston has always been a bit of a mystery to me, since it was always possible to run 30-minute service on the tracks we already had. Weston is a fairly short passing segment so it does make more sense to just keep using the corridor as a single 3-track line rather than a 2-track line plus a 1-track line with a passing siding at Weston. If the 4th track were extended south through Mount Dennis (whose 4th platform is nearing completion anyway) the passing location would be a lot more reliable, but there doesn't seem to be any interlocking immediately south of Mount Dennis where they could tie the 4th track back in. So then they'd either need to add a new interlocking or just wait until they can get the 4th track all the way down to Bloor, and I suspect they do the latter and just wait.

It been many months since I last looked at Weston and Mount Dennis stations, but there was only a short section to the south of the Weston station to have 4 tracks in place from the Islington Interlocking to Black Creek interlocking. I thought it would be done now, but the Mount Denise station still need work on it.
.
Forgot to check the west end in Guelph when I was up there a few weeks ago, but I thought they had cut in the west switch. The east has been cut end with working track signals. If the west not cut in, this means the south track will be used for trains ending at Guelph when it should be Kitchener.

 

[reaperexpress]

It's extra frustrating when there was a second track that CN ripped up years ago, and VIA commissioned CTC that plopped a signal right in the way (near the former crossing at Dublin). The need for two tracks was forseeable then, and two government agencies couldn't work with a Class I on the cusp of a purchase to do the work in one shot.

Not only that, when they upgraded the crossings, they installed new crossing signals directly where the second track used to be - even though Metrolinx had already decided to (re-)double track the line through Guelph at that point. So now some of the hardest work on that segment is to relocate the signal infrastructure that was only just built there a few years ago.

Yorkshire St crossing in 2011:

Yorkshire St crossing in 2019:

 

[Dan416]

Not only that, when they upgraded the crossings, they installed new crossing gates directly where the second track used to be - even though Metrolinx had already decided to (re-)double track the line through Guelph at that point. So now some of the hardest work on that segment is to relocate the signal infrastructure that was only just built there a few years ago.

How can there be such a lack of foresight?

 

[Bojaxs]

How can there be such a lack of foresight?

I find myself asking this so often with MX. And some people are convinced that electrification of the network is only a couple years away.

 

[Krypto98]

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Great video. Metrolinx really likes their fences!

 

[jamincan]

For those wondering, the video starts at Shantz Station Road and follows the double-track east to Fountain Street. It's just short of 3 km.

Out of curiousity, in normal operations are trains able to reliably meet on a siding that long, or will one normally have to wait for the other to clear the section ahead?

 

[crs1026]

Out of curiousity, in normal operations are trains able to reliably meet on a siding that long, or will one normally have to wait for the other to clear the section ahead?

It's a puzzle. If you analyse the likely timings of the GO trains, the Acton and Guelph sidings may be more critical to 2WAD. It's almost exactly 30 minutes running time from Georgetown to Guelph, so if trains meet at Georgetown, hourly 2WAD only needs the Guelph siding to maintain the current GO schedule. Breslau and Acton provide contingency for delays, and for non-core trains eg VIA and peak GO service.

The configuration of the switches at Breslau seems to imply a "running meet" design - the length of the siding, plus the 45 mph turnouts, suggests that two trains timed to meet there will normally be able to meet without either stopping, assuming the most frequent amount of variation in timekeeping. This is done at the price of forcing every train to slow to 45 mph at one end or the other. Possibly GO does intend to speed up running times so trains pass at Breslau instead of Guelph, but that seems a bit optimistic for the moment.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

One further nitpick - to clarify my post about the Breslau "siding" - my understanding is that this part of the line will not be designated as "main track" and "siding", but rather as two "main tracks". The difference lies in the CROR, where there are a number of rules relating to tracks that are designated as "sidings" which require different authorities and actions by operating crews. Having both tracks be main tracks simplifies all that.

- Paul

 

[Krypto98]

One further nitpick - to clarify my post about the Breslau "siding" - my understanding is that this part of the line will not be designated as "main track" and "siding", but rather as two "main tracks". The difference lies in the CROR, where there are a number of rules relating to tracks that are designated as "sidings" which require different authorities and actions by operating crews. Having both tracks be main tracks simplifies all that.

- Paul

Yeah that's a bit of a pet peave of mine when people refer to the Kirby-Teston passing track as a siding. It's two main tracks. An example of a siding would be Rosedale and Oriole on the Bala sub where you are governed by different CROR rules than the CTC main track ones, however you can have signaled sidings like Brechin East and Medora. By the look of it the passing track at Breslau will have 2 separate control locations and therefore be classified as 2 main tracks similar to kirby-teston. Similar will take place with Conti and Hanlon I presume.

 

[drum118]

May 12
Someone posted a photo in the Hurontario LRT thread and it is related to the Cooksville GO Station. There was a meeting taking place with CP personal part of it per the person who took the photo.

From what I can tell looking at the area on on Sunday, it has to do with a junction box and the 2 Presto machines where the future track 3 is to go in that are at the east end of the platform and the ramp to Hurontario St.

The ramp is also in the way of the 3rd track and it can be shifted 10 feet to the south. The big issue for this walkway, it has stairs to the sidewalk for Hurontario St. The current plan calls for a retaining wall along Hurontario St. This would be a good time to allow the sidewalk to be shifted to the east as well building the pier for the new 3rd track bridge before the retaining wall is built. Depending on how the new bridge is to be built. a ramp starting north of the new 3rd track could be built as well to the platform that would meet AODA standards and eliminate the need for an elevator as well a very long walk to the south entrance to get to the platform. Retaining walls will have to be built for the ramp that will be between 2 tracks.

The pier will have to be on the west side of the sidewalk requiring the sidewalk and access to the platform while the pier is being built to be close.

If and when that 3rd track is built, it will run from Cawthra to Confederation Dr where it will connect to the 3rd track there that goes over Hwy 403 at this time. The existing track that was used for storage will have to be upgraded as well a fast speed switch until the rest of the 3r track is built to the Dixie station and then connects to the 3rd track at 427. This was to be have been done by 2011.

Maybe things will finally happen for that 3rd track to Milton to allow All day service 7 days a week.

The 4th track will be just to the north of the LRT station that will not be bult until 2025 at the current rate and over a year behind schedule for the line.

 

[Allandale25]

 

[Dan416]

May 12
Someone posted a photo in the Hurontario LRT thread and it is related to the Cooksville GO Station. There was a meeting taking place with CP personal part of it per the person who took the photo.

From what I can tell looking at the area on on Sunday, it has to do with a junction box and the 2 Presto machines where the future track 3 is to go in that are at the east end of the platform and the ramp to Hurontario St.

The ramp is also in the way of the 3rd track and it can be shifted 10 feet to the south. The big issue for this walkway, it has stairs to the sidewalk for Hurontario St. The current plan calls for a retaining wall along Hurontario St. This would be a good time to allow the sidewalk to be shifted to the east as well building the pier for the new 3rd track bridge before the retaining wall is built. Depending on how the new bridge is to be built. a ramp starting north of the new 3rd track could be built as well to the platform that would meet AODA standards and eliminate the need for an elevator as well a very long walk to the south entrance to get to the platform. Retaining walls will have to be built for the ramp that will be between 2 tracks.

The pier will have to be on the west side of the sidewalk requiring the sidewalk and access to the platform while the pier is being built to be close.

If and when that 3rd track is built, it will run from Cawthra to Confederation Dr where it will connect to the 3rd track there that goes over Hwy 403 at this time. The existing track that was used for storage will have to be upgraded as well a fast speed switch until the rest of the 3r track is built to the Dixie station and then connects to the 3rd track at 427. This was to be have been done by 2011.

Maybe things will finally happen for that 3rd track to Milton to allow All day service 7 days a week.

The 4th track will be just to the north of the LRT station that will not be bult until 2025 at the current rate and over a year behind schedule for the line.

Considering there's no funding for Milton line expansion, I find it hard to believe they'll be adding a track anytime soon. I doubt CP would do it on their own.