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No one is going to fault them for not being able to completely electrify the entire system in a decade - the important thing is getting started and keep working at it. Promising this much and trying to deliver it isn't my idea of chicken - not promising it because it is easier to do nothing is.

AoD

Let me tell you how that sounds to someone that is not necessarily a Liberal supporter "No one is going to fault them for telling a boldfaced lie during an election to get votes.....knowing they can't actually do it"

We have moved very quickly from a guarantee of fully electrified GO lines (all of them) with 15 minute service within 10 years to ....

hey, we’re looking forward to the opportunity to see how much we can actually deliver,
 
its an election.. what do you expect? The general point with all election promises to to take them with a grain of salt, this included.

So what if it takes 12 years instead of 10 to get the Richmond Hill line electrified?

They can do it, but maybe not down to the exact specifications promised. Its not like they are tossing it entirely, just saying that 10 years to electrify 450+km of rail may be a challenge.. a "boldfaced lie" would be to promise the world and deliver nothing, this is what you should expect with election promises which is promise something but deliver a version of it that makes a bit more sense. Electrifying and adding 15 minute service to ALL lines is probably silly, Just because stouffville doesn't really need 15 minute service doesn't mean that electrifying the stouffville line with 15 minute service to Mount Joy isn't realistic. And if it is delivered in 7 years instead of 6, it makes little difference. Big deal if Kitchener doesn't become electrified until 2020 instead of 2019.. it is semantics at that point.
 
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Pretty chicken move to wait until after the election to say "that promise they are making can't actually happen".

It can happen but not with the incremental approach that GO has historically taken. It will take decades if they try to do it one piece at a time across dozens or even hundreds of EA's.

TTC is far better at doing massive overhauls and running full service on opening day.


The telling point was where they debate ordering of construction (busy lines first or the other lines first). NO! Work on all lines at the same time. EAs can be staggered by a year or 2, but most construction should and can be simultaneous.
 
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its an election.. what do you expect? The general point with all election promises to to take them with a grain of salt, this included.

Back in 2003, McGuinty promised to get rid of all coal fired plants by 2007. Eves promised to do it by 2013.

It was eventually done in 2014. Who was more honest in that issue during the election campaign?
I guess one side of the political spectrum does not demand honesty and integrity from their elected officials.
 
because 1 million jobs in 8 years was just so certain to occur, or 100,000 job cuts, or $600 million in efficiencies, or any god damn election promise. Its politics. Get used to it.
 
because 1 million jobs in 8 years was just so certain to occur, or 100,000 job cuts, or $600 million in efficiencies, or any god damn election promise. Its politics. Get used to it.

The million jobs was mocked as a vote buying lie by his opponents.

Now we find out that some other vote buying lies are just "semantics"?
 
Now we get down to the whole concept of "vote buying"

Is that not the entire concept of democracy? politicians do what the people want?

Debating the exact opening year of lines is semantics, just as debating exactly how many job-years the abolition of the college of trades would have created. Sure, it could have been 100,000, it could have been 80,000, but in general its "a lot", which is the general aim of the policy.

Debating whether the entire system can be electrified in 10 or 12 years is like debating the Million Jobs plan being able to create 950,000 jobs or 1,030,000 as promised.

The "million jobs plan" was mocked because it was really a "20,000 jobs plan" once job-years, baseline growth, and public sector job cuts are accounted for. The liberal transit plan would be mocked as well if they were promising system electrification but in the fine print were really only going to electrify the UPX. They aren't, they are still going for full electrification but it may take more than 10 years. Whop-de doo.

The "big picture" of the million jobs plan was seriously flawed, and was rightfully mocked. The "big picture" for the liberals transit plan is strong, and was barely mentioned. the semantics may not be super solid, but they are just that, semantics.
 
Pretty chicken move to wait until after the election to say "that promise they are making can't actually happen".

Well I don't know if anyone here has worked public sector, but you generally don't go making noise at all during an election. First off, you don't want to piss off your potential future boss and get your ass canned. Second, there's a general feeling that public servants have their personal views, but wish to stay neutral during an election. Otherwise, political waves can become quite poisonous and ruin work in other unrelated areas, a no one wants to do that.
 
Pretty chicken move to wait until after the election to say "that promise they are making can't actually happen".

If the current administration of Metrolinx feels that 10 years is an aggressive timeframe, that doesn't mean it can't be done.
 
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Let me tell you how that sounds to someone that is not necessarily a Liberal supporter "No one is going to fault them for telling a boldfaced lie during an election to get votes.....knowing they can't actually do it"

We have moved very quickly from a guarantee of fully electrified GO lines (all of them) with 15 minute service within 10 years to ....

Well if they aren't a Liberal supporter they are in an even less of a position to complain - consider what the other parties' position is on electrification of the entire system (I.e. Not happening)

So the gist is - I will vote for someone that doesn't have electrification in their platform (or state explicitly that it won't happen) - and then I am going to complain about how it doesn't happen within a decade?

AoD
 
Pretty chicken move to wait until after the election to say "that promise they are making can't actually happen".
I'm not seeing much indication that it's not doable, other than the headline. The actual article seems to imply it's going to be a lot of work, and they can deliver in 8-10 years. Am I missing something?
 
I'm not seeing much indication that it's not doable, other than the headline. The actual article seems to imply it's going to be a lot of work, and they can deliver in 8-10 years. Am I missing something?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Milton line was the longest, even if work on it started first. Judging by the noise made on Georgetown expropriations, it could take several years just to get through the EA due to court battles.

The other 6 lines should be fairly straight forward for the central pieces.
 
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I wouldn't be surprised if the Milton line was the longest, even if work on it started first. Judging by the noise made on Georgetown expropriations, it could take several years just to get through the EA due to court battles.

The other 6 lines should be fairly straight forward for the central pieces.
Still, I don't think anyone would be shocked come 2024 to find that there's still work to do. These things always deliver late. If they are actually going ahead at that point, they've made progress.

Nothing changes ... if you dig back into the Toronto Star from about 100 years ago, there is an announcement by CP of what we now call the Milton Line being double tracked from Guelph Junction to Galt. Something we've talked about recently being necessary to extend the Milton line to Cambridge (Galt).
 
Still, I don't think anyone would be shocked come 2024 to find that there's still work to do. These things always deliver late. If they are actually going ahead at that point, they've made progress.

Yeah, a few pieces will remain but hopefully the bulk will be done.

With any luck, by 2024 there is an entirely new round of improvements justified by the now much higher ridership levels.
 
Now the election are over with Lib's in power, time to do some house cleaning at Metrolinx/GO Transit starting with the CEO and those who run these project.

...

Lets hope Wynne appoint someone for MTO who will force Metrolinx to clean up its act and start bring projects in on time and budget, otherwise she gone in 2018. I was told by someone of a comment made by the CEO and its either the standard BS he says in dealing with hot potatoes items or it really shows how little he knows about his system. I expect both and time he grows a backbone and move on.

I'd like to bring up the fact that a lot of the bigger projects ($20 million or more) are being handled by Infrastructure Ontario using the Alternative Financing and Procurement model. This makes the consultant partner responsible for time and cost overruns (as opposed to it coming from tax dollars), and transfers risks to the consultant partner. If a private sector company cannot find a solution to a problem causing cost overruns and time delays, then it is probably unavoidable.

The UP Spur is being delivered under this model. So is the East RMF. As far as I'm aware, the GTS project (in total) is on time and on budget.

Maybe more GO projects under $20 million need to be delivered under this or a similar model.
 

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