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^I took that comment as semi sarcastic as opposed to a serious dateline, and I have to say that as a cheap shot it’s not undeserved.

ML is secretive and noncommittal around tcd’s. While I wouldn’t expect them to lay out the detail of track construction timing just to entertain us schedule nerds, they ought to be able to articulate when they will be in a position to make that next step in the service plan.

I’m not impressed with the pace of progress on the Stouffville and Kitchener lines. The site clearing and grading on the Barrie line is going much faster - it just started fairly recently, (perhaps because there was no rush to get started so long as Davenport wasn’t ready). The Kitchener sidings could have been done long ago, but without the Bramalea-Silver stretch getting resolved and upgraded, they won’t see many trains. (Although surely by now CN could have allowed a single early morning counter flow train out of Toronto to carry Kitchener bound commuters, a big potential market)

There are logistical realities that make some of this work long lead time propositions. ML is following a political game by creating a narrative that everything is falling neatly into place (and already has, supposedly). I would much prefer a more honest narrative that sets realistic expectations about when everything will be ready. But maybe the voters just don’t care. ML is most certainly attempting the fill-in-gaps strategy that @reaperexpress explained…. but we can’t tell if it is on track or falling behind badly.

- Paul
 
I have to say I'm skeptical about the new track through Weston being very useful in the short term. Though it would make space for Kitchener trains to move off UPX tracks *at* Weston, it seems that together with the track layout and service pattern in other places, this would actually result in less stable service than when sharing one track with UPX.
  • Currently, when Kitchener trains meet east of Malton, it isn't at Weston, but just west of Bloor. Moving the meet to Weston would move the Malton meet uncomfortably close to Halwest, where GO has only one usable track. Looking further west, moving the meet would also eat into the planned padding during the midday at Georgetown.
  • East of Parkdale, Barrie trains use the northernmost track in both directions (there aren't any crossovers for them to use the other tracks). The time between a Barrie train of one direction and the other is set in stone, down to the minute, thanks to the location of double-track sections and the desire to extend as many trains as possible to Barrie.
  • Within the USRC, a short section of track C1 is used by westbound UPX trains, Barrie trains in both directions, and Kitchener trains in one direction (mostly eastbound). Together, this already gives headways of 5 minutes, which would become even shorter with the extra Kitchener trains. I'm not sure if the full (fall 2021) peak service would even fit.
 
crs1026 said:
Metrolinx has opened its Virtual Open House on the Barrie line. Presentation is here.

Lots of good detail about what work is going on. The essence is - the various project segments that will lead to double tracking are all being worked on.

The two longest lead time segments between Union and the existing double track (which ends south of Steeles) are Davenport to St Clair and Sheppard to York University. They will be ready for track laying.... in 2025

The presentation states that work within the Eglinton to Sheppard segment will conclude this year and St Clair to Eglinton will conclude next year.

What this gives is said to be a right of way that is ready for track laying (cleared, graded, and fenced). But - no tracks yet. The timetable for tracklaying signalling etc is TBD.

This connects directly to the discussion in the Davenport Flyover thread about its progress. Until some of this track gets laid, only a single track over the CP will be required. Davenport is proceeding well and will no doubt be ready when it's needed but increased service is still several years away.... no passing tracks, no improved headways.

- Paul
Click to expand...
I was actually working L545 the other night and noticed they put up a fence on the east side of the corridor where the Esso customer just south of Finch...
 
innsertnamehere said:
Has Metrolinx dropped the Galloway grade separation? I've seen in a few spots now that they seem to only be planning 2 separations in southern Scarborough now.
Click to expand...

Bringing this question back because an answer just showed up....

On the agenda for the 1st meeting of SCC for the new term of Council are a series of residential demolition applications. These are going to Council as there is no replacement building permit contemplated.

The reason, is given in this letter:

1669041588179.png


From:

 
Northern Light said:
Bringing this question back because an answer just showed up....

On the agenda for the 1st meeting of SCC for the new term of Council are a series of residential demolition applications. These are going to Council as there is no replacement building permit contemplated.

The reason, is given in this letter:

From:

Click to expand...
For reference, these are the three properties on the northeast corner of the crossing. They would probably lose their vehicular access due to the grade separation, and would probably make the grading more complicated/expensive. There are no buildings on the other corners of the crossing.
Capture1.JPG


Do we know if there will be a multi-use trail along the north side of the new grade separation? Such a connection would create a very safe and convenient bicycle route to the station from the neighbourhoods to the northeast, enabling people to get to the station entirely on bike paths and quiet residential streets.
Capture2.JPG
 
Last edited:
reaperexpress said:
For reference, these are the three properties on the northeast corner of the crossing. They would probably lose their vehicular access due to the grade separation, and would probably make the grading more complicated/expensive. There are no buildings on the other corners of the crossing.
View attachment 440155

Do we know if there will be a multi-use trail along the north side of the new grade separation? Such a connection would create a very safe and convenient bicycle route to the station from the neighbourhoods to the northeast, enabling people to get to the station entirely on bike paths and quiet residential streets.
View attachment 440157
Click to expand...
Theres already a trail through Galloway park that connects to Apsco ave.

It would make more sense to just pave this trail and connect it to Cultra Square.
 
robmausser said:
Theres already a trail through Galloway park that connects to Apsco ave.

It would make more sense to just pave this trail and connect it to Cultra Square.
Click to expand...
Okay sure, but my question was whether the grade separation project will include a pedestrian/bicycle grade separation across Galloway Road.

Metrolinx seems to have deleted the English page for this project, but the French page is still online, and doesn't seem to include any kind of trail crossing over Galloway Road.
 
reaperexpress said:
Track 1 (future track 2) is currently used in both directions by the Kitchener line to provide an hourly service off-peak with trains passing at Malton station. As you have extensively documented, they are currently installing the 4th track (new track 1) between Mount Dennis and Hwy 401, so that the single-track operation on track 1 (future track 2) can be twice as frequent, with trains passing at Malton station and Weston station.


What does this have to do with anything? I never claimed that the tracks being built for use as passing tracks are new additions to the plan. To the contrary, my entire point was that they are simply strategically selected portions of the already-planned double track (or in this case quad track) which allow a regular service pattern to be operated at a given frequency in the interim until the full double- or quad-track is completed.


Yes, this is literally the entire point of my post.


What St Clair Station?? St. Clair - Old Weston station is on the Kitchener line, not the Barrie line.

Anyway, yes this is basically what we are saying. We are guessing when X or Y will be completed based on past observations of GO projects and the timelines for enabling works they provided in the above presentation.


The assertion was not that it would take until 2029 for the line to be fully double tracked. The assertion was:


emphasis added
Click to expand...
You know VIA used to serve ST Clair station a long time ago..
 
reaperexpress said:
Strongly disagree. Metrolinx's strategy up to today has been to incrementally add double track in places which enables them to act as passing tracks for a regular service.

On the Kitchener line tracks of the Weston subdivision, they are currently building a passing track at Weston Station exactly 15 minutes east of the existing Malton passing location, to enable bidirectional service to increase from hourly to half-hourly without using the UPX tracks.
On the Stouffville line, they have just completed a new double-track segment between Kennedy and Agincourt, exactly 15 minutes south of the existing Unionville passing track, which will enable bidirectional service to increase from hourly to half-hourly.
On the Kitchener line west of Georgetown they are currently building passing tracks every 15 minutes along the line, to enable half-hourly peak and hourly off-peak service.

So my guess is that we will see a double-tracked segment exactly 15 minutes south of the existing passing location near highway 7, which would place it somewhere in "Zone 1" whose enabling works were already completed in 2021 according to that schedule. That would enable service to operate every 30 minutes rather than every 60. Although GO has committed to limit the number of diesel trains along the corridor, there are some existing deadhead movements which could become in-service runs if there were a separate track slot for them.

Remember that double track is not a yes/no condition, it is a sliding scale between 0% and 100%. For the record, we are currently sitting at 29% south of Aurora, including the Weston sub and USRC. The Stouffville line is at 68% south of Unionville, and will reach 91% when the Highland Creek bridge is completed.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this, much appreciated!

crs1026 said:
^I took that comment as semi sarcastic as opposed to a serious dateline, and I have to say that as a cheap shot it’s not undeserved.

ML is secretive and noncommittal around tcd’s. While I wouldn’t expect them to lay out the detail of track construction timing just to entertain us schedule nerds, they ought to be able to articulate when they will be in a position to make that next step in the service plan.

I’m not impressed with the pace of progress on the Stouffville and Kitchener lines. The site clearing and grading on the Barrie line is going much faster - it just started fairly recently, (perhaps because there was no rush to get started so long as Davenport wasn’t ready). The Kitchener sidings could have been done long ago, but without the Bramalea-Silver stretch getting resolved and upgraded, they won’t see many trains. (Although surely by now CN could have allowed a single early morning counter flow train out of Toronto to carry Kitchener bound commuters, a big potential market)

There are logistical realities that make some of this work long lead time propositions. ML is following a political game by creating a narrative that everything is falling neatly into place (and already has, supposedly). I would much prefer a more honest narrative that sets realistic expectations about when everything will be ready. But maybe the voters just don’t care. ML is most certainly attempting the fill-in-gaps strategy that @reaperexpress explained…. but we can’t tell if it is on track or falling behind badly.

- Paul
Click to expand...
Serious comment but the intent is all the same. I totally agree here, but this is the issue. They need to be focused on deals like the Bramalea Gap and not extending service to far away places.
 
So the cp/cn connecting track is being extended to nickle. The quad track section looks almost finished from Nickle to Humberview.

Wice to Airway is triple tracked for now but there is no track 1 to 2 crossover. There is a 2 to 1 cross over which is primarily used by CN529 running Monday to Friday and 559 on Saturdays
 
Krypto98 said:
So the cp/cn connecting track is being extended to nickle. The quad track section looks almost finished from Nickle to Humberview.

Wice to Airway is triple tracked for now but there is no track 1 to 2 crossover. There is a 2 to 1 cross over which is primarily used by CN529 running Monday to Friday and 559 on Saturdays
Click to expand...

That extension is really the new fourth track getting roughed in. The connecting track will eventually have a switch right about where it has been ie south of the Black Creek bridges, but with a signalled power switch connecting to the new fourth track, which has yet to be laid from Black Creek down to the flyunder.

There is a lot of circuitry already roughed in to the signalling at Airway and Wice. Just drop in the panel switches, and the CTC will be ready to go.

- Paul
 
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