[anb]

45-60 minutes to Kipling, plus how long to Union on the subway? That's got to be way longer than LSW-Union for riders headed anywhere within a few minutes' walk of Union and probably for any south-of-Bloor Line 1 stations too.

Only 35-40 mins from there to Union including the transfer at St George from Line 2 -> 1. The max time this would take if there aren't any further delays is roughly 1:40-1:50 which is literally almost no different than the train-bus combo on LSW between Toronto and Hamilton. And as mentioned before, not everyone has their final destination at or around Union.

 

[turbanplanner]

Only 35-40 mins from there to Union including the transfer at St George from Line 2 -> 1. The max time this would take if there aren't any further delays is roughly 1:40-1:50 which is literally almost no different than the train-bus combo on LSW between Toronto and Hamilton. And as mentioned before, not everyone has their final destination at or around Union.

View attachment 471222View attachment 471223View attachment 471224

Who transfers at spadina? It's realistically a 10 min walk. I find google directions to be very hit or miss

 

[anb]

Who transfers at spadina? It's realistically a 10 min walk. I find google directions to be very hit or miss

Yeah it says that it takes 1 min between the 2 platforms which is obviously not the case, but it still doesn't change the time if you just apply the same logic to St George and transfer there. Also using Triplinx and Transit app gives you similar results to all above, this time giving the right transfer info at St George.

 

[CapitalSeven]

10 minutes? Crawling? The far end of the Spadina line platform is 1300 feet from the Bloor line platform according to Google, so 5 or six minutes normal walking time. It could be a 10 minute transfer if you walked from the north end and just missed your connecting train if headways were 4 or 5 minutes.

 

[turbanplanner]

10 minutes? Crawling? The far end of the Spadina line platform is 1300 feet from the Bloor line platform according to Google, so 5 or six minutes normal walking time. It could be a 10 minute transfer if you walked from the north end and just missed your connecting train if headways were 4 or 5 minutes.

That's roughly what it takes, 10 mins if you're not actively hurrying. I find trains often wait longer at st george as well so you're more likely to catch it. Do we have to split hairs? Does anyone prefer to change at spadina vs st george?

 

[nfitz]

That's roughly what it takes, 10 mins if you're not actively hurrying.

The tunnel is about 200 metres long; that's a leisurely 3-minute walk if you aren't actively hurrying. The stairs are right there at each end of the tunnel. Five minutes IS not actively hurrying. Ten minutes would include walking from the ends of both platforms and out to street level. Personally if I'm going to change at Spadina, I always sit at wither the east end or the south end of the train.

Does anyone prefer to change at spadina vs st george?

The transfer is certainly faster at St. George. It's a no brainer to change from westbound Line 2 to Line 1 at St. George (and vice-versa). And Eastbound Line 2 to soutbound Line 1 at St. George is also a no brainer. But the eastbound to northbound (and vice-versa) is not as clear. It would be interesting to race (and walk) that one. I reckon each takes about 5 minutes - so would likely tie most of the time. Personally, I think I'd get off Line 2 east at Spadina and walk through the tunnel - just for the extra exercise; though if I was in pain or something, I'd go to St. George.

I do though find myself in the tunnel though from time-to-time. Invariably it's when I'm starting on Line 1, and changing to the streetcar or going to somewhere like BMV. There seems little point in getting off Line 1 at St. George and waiting for a Line 2 train, just to go one stop - you can easily wait 5 minutes for that train.

Though the Google instructions are clearly wrong in the example above. And I frequently find that is the case - sometimes showing huge times and walking to change from bus/streetcar to subway. And sometimes telling me to walk from near one stop, to a different one - for some reason not wanting me to walk across the street, and walk 3 sides around an intersection.

Best to take them with a grain of salt. And test alternatives, like starting from the station, instead of a 4-minute walk to the station - which Google might turn into 10, and tell you to take a bus instead. Even with GO stations I've seen weird stuff ... for a while, Google insisted that to transfer from Main to Danforth GO, that you walk around Main station to Barrington, then along Danforth to Dawes, and onto the GO platform there. Which is impossible without scaling a fence. About an 8 minute walk, rather than 4-minute door-to-door walk along Main Street.

 

[turbanplanner]

I was at yonge and bloor going to vaughn, it told me to take the subway all the way down to union and loop around, rather than changing after 2 stops at st george.

 

[reaperexpress]

Google Maps needs to provide directions that will be reliable for a casual user. Regulars know that to efficiently transfer at Spadina you need to be at the east end of a Line 2 train or the south end of a Line 1 train, but an unfamiliar user (who is disproportionately likely to be depending on Google Maps), could easily be at completely the wrong end of the train. Including the length of a train, it's 340 metres from the north end of the Line 1 platform to the nearest point on the Line 2 platform. At 1.4 m/s (5 km/h) that's 4.0 minutes.

Add a 6 minute wait for the train and you get 10 minutes total. You need to include the maximum wait for the train because if the trip plan includes a transfer to a low-frequency route later on, you don't want to risk missing that connection just because you had a higher-than-average wait for the subway.

In practice Google Maps doesn't have anywhere near this level of detail and often provides unrealistic transfer times, as nfitz noted. That said, I am usually able to beat Google Maps' travel time estimates on the TTC, because I do know how to transfer as quickly as possible at most stations.

The transfer is certainly faster at St. George. It's a no brainer to change from westbound Line 2 to Line 1 at St. George (and vice-versa). And Eastbound Line 2 to soutbound Line 1 at St. George is also a no brainer. But the eastbound to northbound (and vice-versa) is not as clear. It would be interesting to race (and walk) that one. I reckon each takes about 5 minutes - so would likely tie most of the time. Personally, I think I'd get off Line 2 east at Spadina and walk through the tunnel - just for the extra exercise; though if I was in pain or something, I'd go to St. George.

I've been meaning to make a video testing the transfer times for the west Bloor line to the north University line for a while. From my own trial and error, it seems to be fastest to transfer at Spadina if you walk fast and are optimally placed in the train before it arrives. I wouldn't recommend it to a casual user, but it's what I personally do.

 

[nfitz]

I was at yonge and bloor going to vaughn, it told me to take the subway all the way down to union and loop around, rather than changing after 2 stops at st george.

It's definitely buyer beware.

I like the ones where it tells you to talk in one direction a bus that only runs every 30-minutes, because it's a minute faster than the frequent bus if you walk the other way. At that very moment, it might be faster - if everything is on time. But in reality it makes sense to stick to the frequent route, because of the frequency.

Google Maps needs to provide directions that will be reliable for a casual user. While we here know that you need to be at the east end of a Line 2 train or the south end of a Line 1 train, an unfamiliar user (who is disproportionately likely to be depending on Google Maps), could easily be at completely wrong end of the train. Including the length of a train, it's 340 metres from the north end of the Line 1 platform to the nearest point on the Line 2 platform. At 1.4 m/s (5 km/h) that's 4.0 minutes.

I suppose what Google maps should do, is assume the midpoint of the platform. But the example above clearly should never happen.

Here's another weird example - that only started recently - that's been changing the suggestion of routes I should take.

The 5-minute walk from the bus platform at Woodbine station to the westbound subway platform. Which seems to involve jumping over a fence, going through the parking lot, east to Cedarvale, up to Strathmore, head west, back to Woodbine Avenue, then south to the main entrance to the subway station! (I should probably move this to the Google Maps thread).

 

[turbanplanner]

It's definitely buyer beware.

I like the ones where it tells you to talk in one direction a bus that only runs every 30-minutes, because it's a minute faster than the frequent bus if you walk the other way. At that very moment, it might be faster - if everything is on time. But in reality it makes sense to stick to the frequent route, because of the frequency.


I suppose what Google maps should do, is assume the midpoint of the platform. But the example above clearly should never happen.

Here's another weird example - that only started recently - that's been changing the suggestion of routes I should take.

The 5-minute walk from the bus platform at Woodbine station to the westbound subway platform. Which seems to involve jumping over a fence, going through the parking lot, east to Cedarvale, up to Strathmore, head west, back to Woodbine Avenue, then south to the main entrance to the subway station! (I should probably move this to the Google Maps thread).

View attachment 471279

The worst for me is it would rather you take 2 busses and wait 5 mins on the street (as if you'll make that connection) vs take a different route all the way

 

[Allandale25]

GO bus route changes frustrate Milton commuters

Locals impacted by lack of direct bus service to Union Station in Toronto.

www.insidehalton.com

 

[T3G]

The removal of through service along Derry Road has been especially brutal. Never mind heading into downtown, it takes an age to get anywhere across the region now.

Before, an off peak trip from Milton GO to Scarborough Town Centre took 2 hours and 8 minutes; itself already pretty bad for a trip that takes a mere 57 minutes by car. It takes a clean 3 hours to do the same now. And then we act shocked - shocked - that people opt for driving whenever possible. Why, indeed, might they do that? We self righteously shame people for driving and not taking transit, but making a usable transit system is just too much.

 

[Northern Light]

The removal of through service along Derry Road has been especially brutal. Never mind heading into downtown, it takes an age to get anywhere across the region now.

Before, an off peak trip from Milton GO to Scarborough Town Centre took 2 hours and 8 minutes; itself already pretty bad for a trip that takes a mere 57 minutes by car. It takes a clean 3 hours to do the same now. And then we act shocked - shocked - that people opt for driving whenever possible. Why, indeed, might they do that? We self righteously shame people for driving and not taking transit, but making a usable transit system is just too much.

Some of this, is of course, just poor planning. Not that that makes it ok; but just to distinguish it from being willful.

However, some is also a product of a system starved for resources, not unlike our hospitals, our universities and our parks.

Ontario now provides the lowest per capita funding to universities of any province; and has not increased the per capital operating grant by $1 since the Ford gov't took office. They (the gov't) also capped the number of funded spots, leaving universities to find money to cover any losses on a whopping 20,000 students.

It doesn't have to be this way.

Take a look at this, and then know its only gotten worse:

To look at the above in a broader context so as to relate it back to transit:

We had $2,000 less revenue per capita than the average Canadian province; nearly $5,000 less than Quebec.

An additional 2k x 14,000,000 people is 28B per year.

 

[T3G]

Fair, but part of the problem is also that GO doesn't seem to utilize the resources they've got very efficiently, especially where it concerns the double decker bus fleet.

The first gen double deckers were refurbished throughout 2015, and all were pulled by March 2018 - that means that on average, they lasted a mere 2 years after refurbishing. The second gen double deckers began to be refurbished in 2019 (the ones built in 2012), and then they were parked during COVID and never returned to service (these were built 2012-2015, so the last ones were a mere 5 years old when they last ran in service).

Perhaps the argument was that the buses were not very good and should've been retired quickly - which is fair enough, but in that case, why did they bother to refurbish them? They were literally setting money on fire.

This also sums up really well why I find all these recent subway proposals so irksome. I can't fathom why, for example, we should be dragging two subway lines from Sheppard to Scarborough Town Centre, while other communities get the absolute bare minimum in terms of transit.

 

[turbanplanner]

Fair, but part of the problem is also that GO doesn't seem to utilize the resources they've got very efficiently, especially where it concerns the double decker bus fleet.

The first gen double deckers were refurbished throughout 2015, and all were pulled by March 2018 - that means that on average, they lasted a mere 2 years after refurbishing. The second gen double deckers began to be refurbished in 2019 (the ones built in 2012), and then they were parked during COVID and never returned to service (these were built 2012-2015, so the last ones were a mere 5 years old when they last ran in service).

Perhaps the argument was that the buses were not very good and should've been retired quickly - which is fair enough, but in that case, why did they bother to refurbish them? They were literally setting money on fire.

This also sums up really well why I find all these recent subway proposals so irksome. I can't fathom why, for example, we should be dragging two subway lines from Sheppard to Scarborough Town Centre, while other communities get the absolute bare minimum in terms of transit.

Scarbs hasn't really gotten anything in the last 35 years. There is a lot of outrage there from the people I know.