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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
LNahid2000
Senior Member
Yep, 4.5 hours is perfect for a quick shopping trip in NY!
Richard White
Senior Member
Exactly.
Last year I took the 15:30-ish train home. I couldn't be arsed to stay 8 hours aftee going there for so many years.
crs1026
Superstar
Definitely a welcome improvement and I’m a bit surprised, so I tip my hat to ML (and CN) for making this happen.
Having said that, I will still shamelessly ask for a second helping. I would hope for a 0830-1030ish departure from Niagara, and a 1300ish departure from Union. Complicates crewing and equipment, I admit, but would be very marketable as not everybody with a need to reach Toronto will want to get up at such an early hour, nor will those that do want to hang around until 17:00 to return.
I wonder whether the last train of the day leaves a bit early, especially given the downtown entertainment market. A lot of people will continue to drive to Burlington so they can get a later GO train, rather than miss the ninth inning or overtime period and take the Niagara train.
I believe this route could easily support frequent two way all day service, but that clearly demands more track. It’s good to see ML achieving a better outcome with CN, but further track construction just can’t happen soon enough. A St Catherines hub as an interim step to delay dealing with the Seaway challenge is quite workable for a decade.
- Paul
Having said that, I will still shamelessly ask for a second helping. I would hope for a 0830-1030ish departure from Niagara, and a 1300ish departure from Union. Complicates crewing and equipment, I admit, but would be very marketable as not everybody with a need to reach Toronto will want to get up at such an early hour, nor will those that do want to hang around until 17:00 to return.
I wonder whether the last train of the day leaves a bit early, especially given the downtown entertainment market. A lot of people will continue to drive to Burlington so they can get a later GO train, rather than miss the ninth inning or overtime period and take the Niagara train.
I believe this route could easily support frequent two way all day service, but that clearly demands more track. It’s good to see ML achieving a better outcome with CN, but further track construction just can’t happen soon enough. A St Catherines hub as an interim step to delay dealing with the Seaway challenge is quite workable for a decade.
- Paul
rbt
Senior Member
Nice. I'll be using those new reverse-peak weekday trips a couple times this summer. St. Cath to Niagara Falls via Port Colborne/Fort Erie is a nice cycle loop.
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reaperexpress
Senior Member
For me the first priority for additional service is a second morning departure from Union (summer only) one hour off from the current one. Overcrowding in previous years has clearly demonstrated that a single morning trip is not adequate during peak tourist season.
The most important function of the train is to handle peak period crowds. For span of service, express buses (and express trains to/from Hamilton?) are just as effective (slightly less convenient but faster)
The most important function of the train is to handle peak period crowds. For span of service, express buses (and express trains to/from Hamilton?) are just as effective (slightly less convenient but faster)
Richard White
Senior Member
That is why they need 4 round trips daily. 2 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon.
anb
Active Member
That is such a nice addition to have with more weekday train trips which will help so much more for not only people who wanna take a weekday getaway, but also for residents of Niagara region.
crs1026
Superstar
With respect to Niagara Falls tourism, this is true. But for the “normal” public transit in this corridor, we are at the point where bus is no longer viable - as the Milton rerouting demonstrates, the QEW/Gardiner is just not reliable and trip times are not acceptable.
It’s a long way off before we can handle 2WAD “express” service beyond Clarkson, but we need to start thinking about this corridor as frequent 2WAD beyond Confederation.
- Paul
rdaner
Senior Member
I wonder if there will be a TOC at the St. Catharines station?
IRT_BMT_IND
Active Member
This is effectively the first corridor where Metrolinx has supplanted VIA. Proposal, the Guelph sub should be next, and the VIA service from Sarnia should be moved to the Dundas sub, by restoring the early morning slot that was cut when COVID hit eastbound, and using a J train for the westbound.
Willybru21
Active Member
GO fully replaced VIA service to Stouffville and Bradford decades ago, this is technically the third corridor that GO has supplanted from VIA.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
The bus does not use the Gardiner. It runs from Burlington Station to Niagara Falls station. That segment is significantly faster by express bus than by express train, even if the bus gets stuck in traffic.
Weekday Schedule, May 2023
The train is scheduled for 90 minutes from Burlington to Niagara Falls, while express the bus is scheduled for 60. So an express bus timed to meet an express train in Burlington would be 20 minutes faster than a direct train.
The corridor already handled 4+ GO trains per hour all day in both directions in 2021. Whether one or two of those trains make limited stops from Oakville to Union is purely a matter of preference.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
GO Expansion has all day express services planned on LSW to service Hamilton. From what I recall the plan is to have the eventual 30-minute frequency service to Confederation GO operate express.
We will have to see when we even get 30 minute service to Hamilton / Confederation, yet alone if we will get express service.
Train speeds on the Niagara Peninsula have also always bothered me - the corridor is dead straight from Hamilton to St Catharines. There is no reason GO shouldn’t be able to operate at 140km/h for the entire stretch, but yet that clearly doesn’t happen.I believe there are reduced speeds through central Hamilton due to the high number of level crossings, but once trains hit the Red Hill Parkway track speeds should really be 140-160km/h.
Long term the goal should be for GO to operate a Toronto-Niagara Falls service which does the trip in around an hour and a half. There is no reason that shouldn’t be achievable on the corridor which should be able to support very high travel speeds for most of its length.
We will have to see when we even get 30 minute service to Hamilton / Confederation, yet alone if we will get express service.
Train speeds on the Niagara Peninsula have also always bothered me - the corridor is dead straight from Hamilton to St Catharines. There is no reason GO shouldn’t be able to operate at 140km/h for the entire stretch, but yet that clearly doesn’t happen.I believe there are reduced speeds through central Hamilton due to the high number of level crossings, but once trains hit the Red Hill Parkway track speeds should really be 140-160km/h.
Long term the goal should be for GO to operate a Toronto-Niagara Falls service which does the trip in around an hour and a half. There is no reason that shouldn’t be achievable on the corridor which should be able to support very high travel speeds for most of its length.
crs1026
Superstar
Ah…. Now I see what you meant. Yeah, the train takes a long time to round the bend at Hamilton and the route over the Skyway has a time advantage, although the QEW can get congested over the Skyway.
I would hope that the speeds could be raised eventually, at least from Hamilton eastwards to St Catherines. One concern may be not so much the number of grade crossing as the volume of truck traffic, although there are lots of busy grade crossings elsewhere with higher track speeds.
When ML built the third track from Aldershot to West Harbour, there were constraints that forced some slow stretches and slow speed turnouts. That is unfortunate, but one would hope that the gap can be closed somewhat.
- Paul