asher__jo
Active Member
I'm really starting to think a light elevated metro line from Kipling to Square one following most of Milton rail corridor is a better solution.
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
T3G
Senior Member
I don't. Having redundancy would make the politicos complacent and they'll think that implementing any kind of actual service on the Milton line is not necessary.
The less alternative options there are, the more pressure there will be to start work on expanding Milton. Also, this doesn't help anyone living along the western edges of the line.
In the meantime, they can start by improving what they have. With hourly frequencies on all branches of the 21 (except for, inexplicably, the Lisgar branch) for most of the day, and with the restoration of 15 minute service on LSW nowhere in sight, there is a lot of work for Metrolinx to do. Of course, declaring Milton a failed town and evacuating it as a government policy would be cheaper, too...
afransen
Senior Member
It's not either or.
afransen
Senior Member
Perhaps a westward extension of Ontario Line?
mdu
Active Member
1. The track geometry is horrid. I took the RHill line once a few months ago. Richmond Hill, despite seeming like a close-in suburb of Toronto, takes longer to get to Union than from 15km to the north in Aurora, as well as other seemingly remote suburbs like Georgetown. The thing just screeches along curves at 40kmph through the whole valley. My parents switched from Richmond Hill to Maple despite living a fair bit closer to the former about a decade ago, then moved to Aurora with not much time lost in their day. Conceivably Richmond Hill could be fixed going up the Half Mile bridge, Leaside spur, and building a Doncaster Diamond, but Ontario Line + YNSE + drive to another exurban station really takes care of the whole thing. ML will never touch it and I basically agree with them.
2. We've done all the low-hanging fruit. We've done lots of more expensive projects, like GTS, the west Toronto/Davenport diamonds, and a whole series of grade separations around the whole network. What's left are the capital expenditures that would make eyes at Queens Park pop. As mentioned, reactivating the midtown line would require lots of new bridges and paying off CP. Same goes with triple/quad tracking out to Milton. DT Brampton is too narrow for more tracks, the missing link only really makes sense if CP is diverted as well which requires shenenigans with the Agincourt yard, etc. and money for them again. At this point, electrification is a lower hanging fruit than huge capex on (re)building whole corridors. Also, believe it or not, electrification of individual lines can be separate projects. Hell, the major NY commuter operations have some diesel lines and some lines that have been electric for a century at this point. Electrification is the next thing that provides good value for the network. And I'm young enough that I think the Milton and midtown lines will see serious studies a decade from now, and maybe construction finishes before I turn 50.
3. Can't see what your point is about switching at Union. The simple fact is that some freight lines in the GTA were useless to CN for decades and some are a core part of the CP network, and the government doesn't have a money tree to fund everything. And I'm sorry, but essentially every suburb of the city that isn't Mississauga is on an electrified line. No shit it's expensive to live in Toronto these days.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Tough morning for GO.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
Suspicious package found at Bronte. Bomb unit on scene.
Agreed. I've been toying with the idea of in essence making the Milton Line the western extension of the Ontario Line. From Exhibition, within the LSW corridor to Roncesvalles, then up Roncy to Dundas West, then joining the Milton Line corridor north of there. I'd have the line end at Lisgar GO though, and build a mainline GO track in the 407 ROW from just north of Lisgar to just east of Bramalea. That way, the "Milton Line" could still run to Milton, but would use the Georgetown South corridor to reach Union.
The main advantage as I see it is the ability for the OL to use the Milton Line corridor where there's enough room, but to either tunnel under it where there isn't room, or to deviate from it when there's a major trip generator to hit (i.e. Square One).
In essence, this would turn the Ontario Line into the GTA's version of BART. Wider stop spacing in the suburbs, with the option for multiple branches in the suburbs where super high frequency metro is overkill.
Bojaxs
Active Member
That 407 row should be left open for the potential freight bypass for CN which is necessary for the Kitchener line.
Sunnyside
Active Member
Is there not more than enough room for both? The ROW is huge. I know utilities occupy a lot of it, but still.
That was my assumption too. I think it makes sense to bundle those two projects together actually. 2 tracks for CN, 2 tracks for GO.
I believe the intent is to have both the 407 Transitway and the freight bypass within the ROW, and this GO line would in essence replace the need for the 407 Transitway (part of a larger GO rail corridor).
APTA-2048
Senior Member
Sunnyside
Active Member
I would imagine that the 407 Transitway being tentatively reworked into the 407/403 orbital/Interregional line frees up the relevant sections of the 407 to the Georgetown sub for GO's use between Milton and Brampton. I really do not think building along this section of the 407 is enough to satisfy orbital demand, however, seeing as the orbital line doesn't even plan to use it; it would primarily serve a different role for access to Milton/Brampton.
Really, if we get good at building rails along highways (which we should, given what is planned for the nu-transitway line and what the estimated costs for the missing link were to be) then doing both is obvious and cost-effective. CP would use the full bypass from Markham/Pickering to Milton, GO would use the 407 ROW through Brampton, and an independent transit line (nu-407 TransitWay) would use the parts of the 407 GO isn't.
I am cautious of unwittingly implying a need for 6 tracks in the 'core' section from Vaughan through Markham- if it is to contain the Missing Link and the 407 Transitway, then GO trains should not also be operating in the corridor unless interlined with the transitway. Keep all the users segregated and only build as much track as needed, seeing as we are talking about likely over 100km of trackage at this point.
Allandale25
Senior Member
crs1026
Superstar
Note to self: time to do some research into the dates when ML first told the public - and the Legislature - that they had begun negotiating with CN over the Kitchener line upgrade.
- Paul
- Paul