[crs1026]

Without getting too granular.... at a birds-eye view, upgrading the Galt Sub includes a flyover, one- or two- track new bridges over a number of pretty significant waterways, widening the row through areas where housing sits very close to the property line,.... not to mention cutting through central Streetsville, and requiring some major grade separations. So while I may not be able to make things add up to $6B, the Milton line 2WAD is a very major proposition.

Those who have been incensed by the lack of interest in the Milton line may now understand what stood in the way.... very few politicians would have the expertise to test or challenge the details of the price tag, but once they heard it was this high I'm sure it gave most of them sticker shock.

- Paul

 

[Krypto98]

Part of the hope for the Missing Link (at least from the perspective of cities like Mississauga) is that the CPKC trains could be diverted to share the York Sub with CN, giving full access to the Milton Line and Midtown Line to Metrolinx. View attachment 539120
Its worth noting though that as far as I know, this was a hope that was only expressed by local municipalities, and was never claimed as a major selling point by Metrolinx. This is why I added the "or something to that scale" detail since my point was the number used was likely based off some over the top design for a new rail ROW that is at least comparable to the scale of the Missing Link.

Good luck with that CN - CP connection at Humber/Woodbridge... the CN grades there are already close to 1% going in and out of the valley, add in going even further down in elevation for the CP track and you are talking maybe 2% grades. Also good luck getting CN and CP to share track that close to CN BIT yard and Macyard.

 

[Toronto1834]

Glad to see the above, but would note, with amusement, that the previous Federal Transportation Minister publicly offered the Ford gov't a 50/50 partnership and 500M to upgrade Milton, which the Ford gov't ignored.

So has there been any planning/engineering work going on since the Feds' offer or have Milton Line improvements been completely stalled for 2+ years?

 

[Allandale25]

The former federal transportation minister weighs in a thread here...

Glad to finally see a commitment from the Ontario government on this. One of the first things I worked on when I became Minister of Transport is to reach out to the Gov of Ontario and Metrolinx and advocate for a two-way, all-day GO service on the Milton line….

An estimate of $1 to $1.2 Billion was given by Metrolinx. I obtained financial approval from the federal government to partner to make this project a reality. When I was ready to announce the federal government’s support, I invited the Ontario gov to join but they declined.

The estimate presented today is suspiciously 6 times higher than what was originally estimated but it’s good to see that Ontario is willing to move forward. The people of Peel and Milton will benefit greatly. Let’s make it happen[.]

 

[Bojaxs]

Good luck with that CN - CP connection at Humber/Woodbridge... the CN grades there are already close to 1% going in and out of the valley, add in going even further down in elevation for the CP track and you are talking maybe 2% grades. Also good luck getting CN and CP to share track that close to CN BIT yard and Macyard.

Yep. The missing link only makes sense for CN. CN will never let CPKC trains that close to their yards. It would impede their operations. Plus the Goreway bridge is currently being constructed, and only being made wide enough for CN tracks. The best option for CPKC is to divert their mainline around Brampton and connect to their Intermodal yard in Vaughan from the west.

 

[Smlgucci]

Without getting too granular.... at a birds-eye view, upgrading the Galt Sub includes a flyover, one- or two- track new bridges over a number of pretty significant waterways, widening the row through areas where housing sits very close to the property line,.... not to mention cutting through central Streetsville, and requiring some major grade separations. So while I may not be able to make things add up to $6B, the Milton line 2WAD is a very major proposition.

Those who have been incensed by the lack of interest in the Milton line may now understand what stood in the way.... very few politicians would have the expertise to test or challenge the details of the price tag, but once they heard it was this high I'm sure it gave most of them sticker shock.

- Paul

Practically speaking, what might grade separation works in Streetsville actually look like? I’m counting four at-grade crossings: Mississauga Road, Thomas, Tannery, and Ontario St.

Are we talking tunnelling? An overpass? There’s not a lot of distance between the GO platform and Mississauga Rd, nor Thomas.

 

[nfitz]

Part of the hope for the Missing Link (at least from the perspective of cities like Mississauga) is that the CPKC trains could be diverted to share the York Sub with CN

Yeah, like that would ever happen.

The solution, like the letter mentions, is additional tracks and grade seperations.

 

[afransen]

Do we have access to the Initial Business Case mentioned in this letter? I can't seem to find it.

We don't know the year those dollars are in. Perhaps it is a far future estimate, with a construction start after GO Expansion is largely complete?

Regarding land: I'd hope at that price it includes buying half the corridor from CP rather than a long-term lease.

Is something like an IBC subject to FOI request?

 

[Bojaxs]

Practically speaking, what might grade separation works in Streetsville actually look like? I’m counting four at-grade crossings: Mississauga Road, Thomas, Tannery, and Ontario St.

Trench the tracks along Streetsville. That way the track goes underneath all the at-grade crossings without constructing a tunnel. Re-design the Streetsville station to be similar to West Harbour in Hamilton.

 

[dowlingm]

Hold on!

6.2B; for a line with no tunnels, no elevated structure except for bridges over roads; arguably no new rolling stock required, and only a smidge of land acquisition at one or two pinch points.

You must be kidding me!

Seriously, I won't throw around an accusation of grift without evidence but I'll be damned if I can think of any other explanation. That estimate better include a tunnel to Square One!

There’s widening this elevated structure, for one thing

 

[sixrings]

Can I ask a next question. If the Milton line is separated does that open the conversation to a mid town line through Toronto.

 

[allengeorge]

The funding requested is eye-wateringly high.

That said, I’m glad the Ontario government is at the table (they absolutely have been amazing when it comes to putting $$$ on the line for transit capital expenditures).

I am curious if the federal government will respond however. There are now two big ticket items on their plate for which there’s Ontario funding: the TTC subway cars and now the Milton line. I’m betting they don’t pony up.

 

[sixrings]

The funding requested is eye-wateringly high.

That said, I’m glad the Ontario government is at the table (they absolutely have been amazing when it comes to putting $$$ on the line for transit capital expenditures).

I am curious if the federal government will respond however. There are now two big ticket items on their plate for which there’s Ontario funding: the TTC subway cars and now the Milton line. I’m betting they don’t pony up.

Im betting if Bonnie wins they pony up. If ford stays in there’s a new version of deferred spending.

 

[crs1026]

I’m confident that Ford’s sudden interest is the result of Bonnie becoming leader, leading to the prospect of the line being an election promise by the other side.
And if you are going to ask for money, why not ask for a lot. Especially if you think the other side is serious about building, so the spend becomes a fait accompli, and the impact on the taxpayer is no longer on your conscience.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

Can I ask a next question. If the Milton line is separated does that open the conversation to a mid town line through Toronto.

It helps, yes. But only if yet more money is brought. I don’t see both projects proceeding in parallel. So we are talking twenty years out.
And really, if we are building an express cross GTA line, maybe it needs to be further north to benefit more people in more places. I can see a mid town line on the CP corridor landing a ways down the priority list. It may not be the first cross town line to be built.

- Paul