[denfromoakvillemilton]

As of today, there is only a single operational siding on the line, which is between Maple and King City stations. A second siding, between YorkU and Rutherford stations, was supposed to be completed in August 2016, but it's behind schedule so it won't begin operation until later this year. That new siding would have allowed the off-peak service to operate every 60 minutes (with a 10-minute layover at Aurora), but for now we're making do with 75-minute off-peak service (with a 46-minute layover at Aurora).

With only a single siding along the line, it's physically impossible to have any counter-peak service, because the existing peak-direction commuter service operates every 30 minutes in the afternoon peak, and every 15 minutes in the morning. A hypothetical counter-peak train would encounter peak-direction trains more frequently than the sidings exist.

With the current track configuration, a weekday service would need to operate over an even more limited time-span than the existing midday service on the Kitchener line. The first and last off-peak Kitchener Line trips do meet peak-direction trips, which wouldn't be possible on the Barrie Line. Once the new Rutherford siding comes on line later this year, it might just be possible to squeeze a single counter-peak train past the start or end of peak-direction service, allowing for midday service with similar hours to the existing Kitchener Line service.



Actually I don't think the pace is slow at all. GO Transit has seen more service expansion in the last decade than it did for its entire previous history combined. Of course many train lines still operate peak-direction commuter service as they have for decades, but in the meantime we've seen huge expansions of bus service, with half-hourly or better two-way all-day bus service to most train stations, as well as the development of crosstown routes such as the 407 corridor, and the expansion of the service area to include places such as Niagara, Kitchener, Guelph, Brantford and Peterborough. A decade ago Kitchener had no GO service at all, and today it has 4 commuter train round trips per day, hourly express service to Brampton, hourly local service to Square One, frequent express service to Square One or Bramalea/York on certain days and peak-direction express buses from Cambridge to Milton.

The big service expansion is just starting to spread to GO Trains, as the construction projects we started years ago are starting to reach completion. For example, full double-track from Union to Aurora (including the Davenport grade-separation and provision for a future third track), full quad-track from Union to Pearson Junction, finally expanding the pinch point at Bayview Junction (Hamilton), a passing siding at Milliken, full quad-track from Union to Port Credit, and extending the triple track from Guildwood to Pickering.

The Barrie Line is one the furthest along in its service and track expansion. It doesn't have the highest potential new off-peak ridership of the seven train lines, but it is logistically the easiest to implement. But even without the massive train service expansion planned between now and 2018, the rate of service expansion has been quite respectable:
View attachment 95476
Notes: I'm not sure when service increased from 4 round trips per day to 5. I've shown it as 2011 but that might be off by a year or so. Frequency is measured during the summer (so from 2013-2016 it includes the pilot weekend service).

They should do something about the Newmarket situation. We can't miss a community of 85000, it will be another Hamilton. Whether that is building at Mulock or a third siding to Newmarket Station, what do you think?

I do think expansion has been a little slow. They spent so much money on GTS and only now are they finishing all day service on the Brampton line. Given that we know what it takes for Milton, and that Milton also has the highest no Lakeshore ridership, why not bite the bullet as well? Even with Richmond Hill, all day service on there would be much faster then YRT + Subway even with the subway extension.

 

[jje1000]

How much of an impact do you think GO service will have on the Liberals popularity? People are very angry about increasing Hydro costs do we think increased GO service can get support back?

You will find your answer here:

From:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com//new...io/article33453270/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe

So... 20.5% compared to 5%. All the top items (excluding the others/unsures) are directly related to high-profile negative headlines on the Liberals.

To be honest though, the Liberals have indeed made their bed with these issues, so this should tell you what the major topics in the 2018 election (excluding all curveballs) are going to be all about.

 

[smallspy]

As of today, there is only a single operational siding on the line, which is between Maple and King City stations. A second siding, between YorkU and Rutherford stations, was supposed to be completed in August 2016, but it's behind schedule so it won't begin operation until later this year. That new siding would have allowed the off-peak service to operate every 60 minutes (with a 10-minute layover at Aurora), but for now we're making do with 75-minute off-peak service (with a 46-minute layover at Aurora).

Nitpick - the two sidings on the line are at Bradford and a short one at Finch. There are two sections of double track located along the line, one at York University Station (between Snider South (12.1) and Steeles (12.9)) and one north of Maple (between Teston (18.5) and Kirby(20.7)).

The new section of double track will extend the current one from Steeles to Concord (16.6).

Notes: I'm not sure when service increased from 4 round trips per day to 5. I've shown it as 2011 but that might be off by a year or so. Frequency is measured during the summer (so from 2013-2016 it includes the pilot weekend service).

September 3, 2011 was when the 5th train was added.

What about newer Bus numbers? It would be good to see a serious boost in ridership there, how many of the new Double Deckers are in service?

GO's got about 525 buses in their fleet right now, but even with the 407 corridor offering something approaching "frequent service" between Unionville and Bramalea its still only a fraction of the capacity of the train lines. It's been a while since I last saw numbers, but at that time I seem to recall that the split was skewed 80/20 towards rail.

There are about 35 of the new double deckers currently in service, with another 50+ scheduled to arrive this year.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[micheal_can]

Something I was wondering: Does GO have enough 12 car trains to run 30 minutes all day, and current peak runs?

 

[dowlingm]

This seemed like an informative piece on the difference between double track and sidings, but maybe someone on thread has a better one: http://dslweb.nwnexus.com/tawhite/Trans/sidings.html

 

[micheal_can]

Your question lacks enough detail for a proper answer but, I'll try my best. GO certainly has enough rolling stock to serve the peak plus AD2W on LW and LE only as this is currently the service they run. As we have been discussing track conditions limit the expansion of 30 minute frequency to other lines at the moment, that will change alot as various construction projects are completed over the next few years. When it comes to actually having the rolling stock as was mentioned recently there is plenty to run all day service on at least part of the network off peak, however the main limiting factor is the number of locomotives not "trains" because the number of cars can be varied (though it often isn't as was recently discussed).

I haven't followed new locomotive and railcar acquisition enough to say how much is on order though, perhaps someone can say.

So, 30 minute, all day on all lines could be possible with the coaches, but we need more engines? Sounds like Electrification might be the prudent thing to do first. As lines are electrified, shuffle the diesel engines to the other lines and buy new EMUs.

 

[smallspy]

Something I was wondering: Does GO have enough 12 car trains to run 30 minutes all day, and current peak runs?

GO currently has 55 trainsets in service on any given weekday. Of those, 30 are 12-cars long. The next 20 are 10-cars long, and the remaining 5 are 6-cars long.

They currently do not have enough equipment to make all 55 trainsets 12-cars long, if that is what you are asking.

This seemed like an informative piece on the difference between double track and sidings, but maybe someone on thread has a better one: http://dslweb.nwnexus.com/tawhite/Trans/sidings.html

More specifically to Canada, this is going to be a better resource: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/rules-tco167-166.htm (Rule 80 and 81) and https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/rules-tco167-167.htm (Rule 105).

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[micheal_can]

GO currently has 55 trainsets in service on any given weekday. Of those, 30 are 12-cars long. The next 20 are 10-cars long, and the remaining 5 are 6-cars long.

They currently do not have enough equipment to make all 55 trainsets 12-cars long, if that is what you are asking.


Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Would 55 trainsets be enough for 30 minutes each way on all lines?

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

GO's got about 525 buses in their fleet right now...

There are about 35 of the new double deckers currently in service, with another 50+ scheduled to arrive this year.

Latest 'Info to GO' says 505 buses, 139 of them double deckers. Realize that's maybe different than what's in service but just providing the stat.

 

[mdrejhon]

Something I was wondering: Does GO have enough 12 car trains to run 30 minutes all day, and current peak runs?

They bought the new cabs, which allows the old coaches to be converted to new trainsets.

That probably provides enough trainsets to turn at least some extra lines such as Bramalea-Unionville towards 30 minute service, when combined with upcoming MP54AC locomotive orders (21 locomotives, already in production) and additional BiLevel coach orders (already in production; assembly line is currently running to produce more for GO).

I suspect the current trainset procurement is sufficient to scale to 30-minute service on all the RER lines.

And not long after (plus probably a small extra supplement), 15-minute electric service (BiLevels driven by electric locomotive) once all the Bramalea-Unionville BiLevels are redirected to other lines when EMU trainsets exclusively run the allstop service between Bramalea-Unionville (otherwise known as the 'SmartTrack' section of the GO RER network). EMUs are currently initially assigned only to Bramalea/Aurora/Unionville, at the current GO RER Business Plan.

 

[ssiguy2]

I don't think the Tories would be particularly interested in either one. Finch is LRT which the Tories hate and the DRL is seen as a downtown Toronto project and the Tories will see no political gains from it. This is why I think the DRL should be underground RER so the service extends into the outer 416 and 905 so it is much more likely to gain political and hence financial support from the Tories.

I do agree that with the Tories you would see far greater effort on RER and general GO than under the Liberals. They have to play to the base and that is in suburban 416 and 905. I think you would see Milton and RH brought into RER, faster electrification, and at a minimum, fare integration and even possibly fare parity so to be useful to Torontonians in the outer 416 which it isn't now. The Tories know that transit in both the 416 and 905 is a big deal and will gear it's policies towards RER/GO where it will gain the most political mileage. I think GO/RER will become an infinitely better system under the Tories than it would under the Liberals.

 

[TOareaFan]

I'm not sure if this information is available, nonetheless simply figure out the length of the line and figure out how long it takes for a train to loop back to the initial station then increase density as needed.

You are assuming (I think incorrectly) that all lines are planned to be at 30 minute frequencies for their entire length. I don't think that was ever the plan.

In fact I don't think there is a "30 minute plan at all".....I think the election promise was all lines would be at 15 minute frequencies......but only to a certain point on each line. How the service gets increased to get to that point would, I think, vary according to circumstances.

 

[ssiguy2]

Not sure why my last message didn't show up. Can a mod fix it please.

 

[TOareaFan]

Not sure why my last message didn't show up. Can a mod fix it please.

looks like you have an open bracket on the quote you were answering.

 

[mdrejhon]

Well currently it looks like 2019 is going to be the earliest we see any electrification work begin so I wouldn't expect to see electric service sooner than 2020 at the earliest. In retrospect one of the main fears I and some others have had about Electrification going out the window if the libs are not reelected is somewhat unwarranted. The city is placing so much weight on "Smarttrack" (GO RER+) that I'd be somewhat amazed to see that get canceled.

There will be so much lock-in to electrification by 2018 that it will be difficult to cancel it completely. Scaleback and some delays, possible. Complete cancel, probably not.

From the pessimist's viewpoint, it may manifest itself in many forms, politically, but the worst would be a delay to 2022 or 2026, as the electrification path appears to be unstoppable this time around thanks to spent capital including Union Revitalization and gradually increasing amount of electrification spending (already occuring).

Fortunately, even if Wynne loses and much is scaled back initially -- we'll still see part of the electrification happen: It seems something -- at least one of the routes -- is likely going to be electrified through Union, no matter who is sitting at Parliament Hill and Queen's Park.

Without further ado, various forms of electrification spending will be occuring before the 2018 elections -- not necessarily construction of corridor, but things like substations, railyards, ordering the vehicles, etc. Meaning, they intend that some electrification capital will have already been spent/committed by the time election rolls around -- boobytrapping it enough to make it impossible for Conservatives to cancel without "Gas Plant Scandal" penalty costs (>$1B).

If the current spending currently matches roughly this graph, there is probably a large capex surge occuring 2017 before 2018 election, some of it related to electrification, which helps locks in electrification commitment.

What politicians call "SmartTrack" (GO RER Bramalea-Unionville) depends heavily on this budget you see above.

I think even the Conservatives will have to toot it in one form or another -- they might just spin it differently (e.g. "Get rid of the UPX boondoggle by merging it into SmartTrack" something that's already defacto started happening anyway by the Liberals with UPX already being merted into GO)

Meaning, the base electrification is likely proceeding as planned, but we might see different paint, different brands, different route priorities, scalebacks of parts, scaleups of other parts, changes to station locations & stopping plans, etc.