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Crossrail was to achieve what Toronto already has (and London used to have, via the Metropolitan Railway) and that's 'run-through'. Toronto never had the limitations placed on many European capitals: (And some eastern US ones): Steam trains had to terminate at the city limits.

To use Crossrail as a comparison misses the point. London lost her 'run-throughs' (at least East to West) (Snow Hill Tunnel does it north south as well as Wapping Tunnel to the east) when the Metropolitan was mostly absorbed as The Underground.

What Toronto needs is a by-pass, not a new run-through, and there is an alternative to tunneling, albeit I've not read of it: Double stacking at least a pair of rails above a pair of existing ones and around the south of the shed at Union to rejoin the main alignment west of the Don so RER can travel up the Don or to the east across it. A pair of extant tracks to the west of Union would have to be lowered incrementally to allow a double track stack to clear the bridges until the upper tracks reattain grade at Bathurst, with the elevated section wye-ing at both ends to allow RER to cross over other tracks before ramping back to normal track grade. Ostensibly the tracks could split into three or four south of the shed above the freight by-pass tracks to serve three elevated platforms. It may be unsightly, but the chances of cash-strapped backwards Toronto and Ontario doing a 'Big Dig' are virtually zero. Meantime Union is saturated.

Something I can't find anyone to answer is why Union still has three freight by-pass tracks? Why is there any freight running through there at all? If the lines are embargoed as passenger only, a height restrictive gauge can be applied that would allow only shorter stock (e.g: EMUs) to run on double stacked sections, and greatly alleviate the congestion through Union. Sound implausible to block some traffic? It's done at the Airport Spur. Pantographs on electric stock can compress quite low to get through tunnels, same can be done on stacked track.

What about running GO service on the old CP line through Midtown Toronto? Unfortunately it won't intersect the Relief Line downtown, but in conjunction with the Relief Line Long, there should be some capacity for people to feed onto Yonge and Spadina.

Really, a London Crosstown-style project (with its associated complexity and cost) should be the last resort after you exhaust all other existing infrastructure options.

Taking the Line that parallels Dupont would work well. It is already double track too. It could go between the airport and Malvern, and if the Pickering Airport ever gets built, to it.
 
Something I can't find anyone to answer is why Union still has three freight by-pass tracks? Why is there any freight running through there at all? If the lines are embargoed as passenger only, a height restrictive gauge can be applied that would allow only shorter stock (e.g: EMUs) to run on double stacked sections, and greatly alleviate the congestion through Union. Sound implausible to block some traffic? It's done at the Airport Spur. Pantographs on electric stock can compress quite low to get through tunnels, same can be done on stacked track.

Those tracks don't see much freight these days - just a few cars a week. That traffic isnt an impediment to electrification as there are no double stacks or auto racks. Sure, one could embargo the line to freight once and for all, but might as well let that little bit of business continue. Trucking would be more expensive - the City is a customer, we don't need yet another cost to hit the taxpayer - and there might be a few jobs lost.

The tracks that remain work well for GO use. They may be marked as 'freight' but they are used by GO trains heading to and from the yard at Willowbrook. They are instrumental to the throughput of the trainshed at peak periods.

Could a second tier of platforms be added, with the freight business retained? I don't see why not. Whether the cost would permit is the question.

It wasn't that many years ago that CN ran through freights through downtown, but that isn't done much any more. There was one detour freight train run through the downtown recently, but it was an extremely exceptional circumstance.

- Paul
 
In one of the earlier GO schedules, one opposite-direction Lakeshore train was omitted (or started at a more innermost station), so you had a 1 hour wait between Lakeshore trains if you were trying to commute against peak.

It does not seem to be the case anymore, but back sometime in 2014, I had noticed a 1 hour gap at one point. I can't remember if it was Union-Aldershot or Aldershot-Union, but it was opposite direction relative to peak. I guess that's fixed due to some extra train sets coming online since 2014?
There's still the one hour gap in the late afternoon on Lakeshore East from oshawa to pickering.

I was wondering about this earlier so I made a chart of the headways at a selection of Lakeshore East stations based on the current (September 2016) eastbound schedule. Headways greater than 30 minutes are supposed to be highlighted in red, but for some reason the 60 minute headway at midnight didn't get highlighted.

Note that Stouffville line trains are included since some of them serve Lakeshore East stations en route.

Part 1 - Until 16:00
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Part 2 - After 16:00
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I was wondering about this earlier so I made a chart of the headways at a selection of Lakeshore East stations based on the current (September 2016) eastbound schedule. Headways greater than 30 minutes are supposed to be highlighted in red, but for some reason the 60 minute headway at midnight didn't get highlighted.

Note that Stouffville line trains are included since some of them serve Lakeshore East stations en route.

Part 1 - Until 16:00
View attachment 95581

Part 2 - After 16:00
View attachment 95580
Thanks reaper... this is cool. I do think it is westbound too that there is a one hour gap on the LSE.

Here.http://www.gotransit.com/timetables/en/PDF/Timetables/12160417/Table9.pdf

18:25 eastbound from pickering to union.
 
That traffic isnt an impediment to electrification as there are no double stacks or auto racks. Sure, one could embargo the line to freight once and for all, but might as well let that little bit of business continue. Trucking would be more expensive - the City is a customer, we don't need yet another cost to hit the taxpayer - and there might be a few jobs lost.
The point wouldn't be to completely stop serving what few customers there are downtown, but to reroute the freight, what little there is, around Union. But InsertName's answer besides, it becomes moot if that freight is less than catenary height as that pertains to proposing vertically stacking an RER twin track to run around the shed and to the leads each end of the USRC. If lateral space permits around the shed, then three tracks. It could go even more if supports go outside the embankment, but it's going to look like hell as it is, and I'm thinking the most streamlined and efficient way this could be done within the present USRC footprint. My concern is it looking like the ELs of New York and Chicago, not pretty. That being said, until the Gardiner comes down, the sightlines of a vertical tier can't make things much worse. The upper deck would do two things: It would speed RER across slower traffic and tracks, avoiding the ladder switches into Union, and it would act as a 'flyover' to allow choosing which corridor to continue on at each end of the Union Yard. Speaking of "yard", it might even avoid the imposed yard speed limit. Platforms of course would also have to be on an upper level. Engineering wise, it would be relatively easy and efficient to utilize that grade separation. My big worry continues to be visual. The track underneath, due to even the lesser needed vertical gauge, would have to be lowered somewhat to allow the stack to clear under the four bridges to the west of Union.

Complicated? Absolutely, but still a fraction of the complications and costs of tunneling. And able to be connected directly to the rest of the Union passenger corridors and platforms.

What would drive it being approved is the incredibly massive, disruptive and expensive cost of tunneling, and it would be able to be far more flexible in terms of accessing the corridors north as well as east-west by wyes at each end of the deck. One saving grace for it being a deck is...you guessed it, being able to be merged into the Rail Deck Park. That might in fact be one of its best selling features. "Yes, it's pig-ugly, but it will be mostly hidden by the park".

As for vertical separation of RER tracks, think Long Island Railroad in parts of NYC. Due to the very high thrust-to-weight ratio and distributed traction of modern EMUs, climbing steeper incline ramps than even the present fly-under at Bathurst is possible.

I believe Metrolinx is going to start on the new platform at union this year, replacing those bypass tracks anyway.
That is what I was wondering. For what little use those tracks serve (and freight could be routed up via the by-pass) for passenger use, that space is very valuable.

Edit to Add: On reflection, comparing flown tracks to NYC's and Chicago's ELs is unnecessary. We have the modern model at the airport and the airport spur.
 
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What about running GO service on the old CP line through Midtown Toronto? Unfortunately it won't intersect the Relief Line downtown, but in conjunction with the Relief Line Long, there should be some capacity for people to feed onto Yonge and Spadina.

Really, a London Crosstown-style project (with its associated complexity and cost) should be the last resort after you exhaust all other existing infrastructure options.

This 'mid-town line' on the planning books, and has been for a while. It is not going to happen until a by-pass solution is achieved for CP. But if it can be achieved, it could absolutely be a good reliever for Union Station if Milton line trains are redirected to the Yonge line via Summerhill station.
 
This 'mid-town line' on the planning books, and has been for a while. It is not going to happen until a by-pass solution is achieved for CP. But if it can be achieved, it could absolutely be a good reliever for Union Station if Milton line trains are redirected to the Yonge line via Summerhill station.

That's only a good thing if the city moves ahead with additional north-south transit in the midtown area.

The crosstown line has the most benefit for riders who are truly crossing the city. Save it for when we have the DRL, and connect it only to the Spadina Line and the DRL. Adding the Milton GO ridership to the Yonge subway would be a disaster.

Leave current peak commuter services such as Milton routed to Union. Consider the cross-town link as a regional transportation line, not as a commuter or city-serving line. Maybe it runs every 15 minutes, with no emphasis on commuter peaks. Maybe it's an interleaved half hour Milton- Malvern service and a half-hour Bramalea-Richmond Hill service via the former Oriole-Leaside branch.

And when we build the bypass - we ought to scope out a 2-track right of way for passenger so that one day, when we want a cross regional link up there, we aren't negotiating with the freight railways all over again.

- Paul
 
And when we build the bypass - we ought to scope out a 2-track right of way for passenger so that one day, when we want a cross regional link up there, we aren't negotiating with the freight railways all over again.

Do we really think Yonge will have the capacity for that many riders until RLL gets built? I Unions location as a benefit because anyone riding the subway coming from GO is going counter peak.

The By-Pass is key to everything. We're in deep doo-doos if it doesn't happen, and soon. Unfortunately, it's only a priority issue politically to those in the know. It has no political currency to the Average Pleb come elections.
 
That's only a good thing if the city moves ahead with additional north-south transit in the midtown area.And when we build the bypass - we ought to scope out a 2-track right of way for passenger so that one day, when we want a cross regional link up there, we aren't negotiating with the freight railways all over again.

- Paul

In theory, wouldn't that be the purpose of the 407 transitway?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
In theory, wouldn't that be the purpose of the 407 transitway?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Most definitely. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only ever likely to be BRT, yes? I was thinking to a day when there might be a need and desire for heavy rail, in my dreams up to and including HSR, across the top of the city. Kind of like TGV to Charles De Gaulle airport. Yeah, it's a long way off, but so was the Bloor subway when they built the Viaduct.

I don't know if the Transitway is rail-convertible in terms of grades, curves, etc.

- Paul
 
I think that was examined a few months back in one of the forums, and close analysis indeed indicated it to be BRT, the grades and curves were just too severe for even LRTs.

But it is a very valid point, none-the-less. On one hand, QP is lecturing on Places to Grow et al...'lecturing?'...*mandating*...and yet the long term planning for the blindingly obvious need for rail transport corridors is being overlooked.

This brings me back to the need for a 'Super-Region' (all GTHA present regions merge into one, and cities like Miss, Brampton, present Toronto de-amalgamated) for an upper tier competence that inherits all inter-municipal transit trunks (minus federal) and GO RER, if not entire Metrolinx and expressways in the super-region, all subway and LRT lines, such that planning for the obvious will take place without interference from the political whims of the QP regime of the day. TTC would still exist as a local bus provider for City of Toronto, and to the de-amalgamated ex-Toronto cities who wish to contract them. It has drawbacks, it has many more advantages in terms of the locale adjusts their tax policies to pay for bus infrastructure or not. The fare is totally integrated across the Super-Region, so locals only determine service levels by tax base, not fare.

Pardon my being extra-cynical today, (I'm actually having a great day, this isn't a reflection of mood), but I see a train wreck on the horizon if things don't change fast in terms of governance at the last on the civic and provincial levels. Some munis are doing well, most aren't. And there's an almost complete vacuum for planning on the regional scale, let alone super-regional (which btw, refers to the GTHA 'Golden Horseshoe'). That 407 corridor is *prime* to make allowance now for what must inevitably follow in rail.

Even LA is doing this now for Gawdsakes! Even the Brits are doing this, and politically they're in almost complete governance disarray. London has become a study in re-asserting central control over all rail and tube lines not only in Greater London, but even approaching it from outlying counties!

(In all deference to Ontario, the UK just has two distinct tiers of governance, but the point is still very clear: A massive con-urbation must have planning and transportation powers regionally, and the constituent boroughs have local transit provision .)
 
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Most definitely. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only ever likely to be BRT, yes?

It is being planned, and would be built, with a provision to convert it into LRT. Heavy rail, no, however demand projections relatively far out aren't even necessarily such that an LRT will be required in the foreseeable future, yet alone heavy rail.
 
Do we really think Yonge will have the capacity for that many riders until RLL gets built? I Unions location as a benefit because anyone riding the subway coming from GO is going counter peak.
That may not be enough, if 15-min all-day 2-way Milton RER goes to Midtown. RLL West may be needed too.
 

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