[crs1026]

The former Northland cars are converted GO coaches and continue to be used on the Polar Bear Express to Moosonee. These no longer resemble commuter stock, inside or out. Recently ONR has been refurbishing these cars. I don't know if the recent additions are parts horses or a fleet expansion.

I don't subscribe to the 'find the oldest shells available because they are cheap and can be refurbished' approach for UPE or elsewhere. Let GO define its needs and procure what it needs.

As to running the 104 as a historical vehicle, perhaps those with an interest will get a chance to ride it on an excursion or exhibition train connected to the Anniversary events. But putting this car into regular service is a bit of a stretch. For the preservationists, a much beter use of the same renovation money would be to buy back one of the original GP40TC locomotives from Amtrak. We should have one of those in a museum.

- Paul

 

[innsertnamehere]

A GP40TC for reference, in original livery:

 

[cplchanb]

IMO most likely they will prob just turn it into some exhibition piece and have it maybe on some light PR runs. This thing is half a century old... Im not sure it would be economically feasible/realistic to rebuild it into a 2017 compliant vehicle acceptable for daily commuting.

 

[dowlingm]

I'm a philistine in such matters (I would get rid of the entire high floor streetcar fleet in 2025, including the PCCs and the Witt), and would be alarmed if I thought any of the "let's get single levels!" "let's put them on the Weston sub!" stuff above was anywhere near in danger of actually happening. If the money is spent on 104, fine, but then give it to the TRHA if they can use it.

 

[steveintoronto]

I think some posters are mistaking the proposed intent if, at all possible/probable, the H-S single-level coaches are in some way to be used on GO and connecting spurs. At the least, a touring train promoting GO's history in this year of Canada's 150th birthday is affordable in the big scheme of things, and politically advisable considering the frailty of many of the promises. 104 is already here it seems, and a few more sibling coaches, if sitting idle in Northern Ontario, appears apt to make it a show-train, either for weekend runs or special visits to promote GO rail and potential expansion.

Consider:

Since cancellation of Toronto to Cochrane "Northlander" service, all unilevel coaches and APU's are now in Cochrane. The initial plan, one would think, would be to utilize the more modern coaches and diners for Polar Bear Express service between Cochrane and Moosonee. However, aside from using an extra 700 series diner and a couple of 600 series coaches, Ontario Northland's former Via rail 850 series coaches are still very much used for the northern trips. Therefore it is unclear what Ontario Northland's plans are for the rebuilt Hawker-Siddley former GO Transit coaches and diners. Here is a photo captured on October 18th along Cochrane Coach Yard's Steam 2 & 3 tracks where some of the unilevels are being kept.

[...continues in lengthy article...]

http://www.canadianrailwayobservations.com/croarchives/nov2012shortlines.htm

And for what H-S coaches are still being used on the Polar Bear Express, other plans are now afoot, and all the H-S don't seem to be included (just 16):

The Polar Bear Express

Project Profile: The Polar Bear Express
A unique project that will bring new equipment to Ontario Northland’s passenger train that operates between Moosonee and Cochrane. The project will be completed in 2017 and includes the refurbishment of:

• Eight standard passenger coaches;
• Two accessible coaches that will meet AODA standards;
• Two dining cars;
• One snack car;
• One family car (a car with an enclosed play area for children with comfortable seating for parents), and;
• Two baggage cars.

• http://www.ontarionorthland.ca/en/refurbishment/polar-bear-express

I guess some are too rich and proud to look a gift-horse in the mouth?

 

[mdrejhon]

It's also the 50th anniversary of GO trains this year, too.

So bring on the big 2017 service increases!

 

[steveintoronto]

It's also the 50th anniversary of GO trains this year, too.

So bring on the big 2017 service increases!

Exactly. Normally I'm not one for 'Rah-Rah-Rah' showcases. $1.5B for the Feds to celebrate this year is beyond belief, but something like this using *stock that Ontario already owns* is a bit of a no-brainer. It will cost something, doubtless, to clean up and repurpose some of this stock, maybe that's not possible, but if it is, why not? With the obscene amounts of money Metrolinx and the Province spend on frivolity, surely some old-fashioned 'show and tell' will pay big dividends since costs will be so low. Damn, even the Feds might chip in on the costs, and also contribute exhibits? Same train can be used to run excursions if it is in shape to doing so.

Anyone remember this?
Canada - Confederation Train - page 1 - Expo 67

 

[APTA-2048]

I think some posters are mistaking the proposed intent if, at all possible/probable, the H-S single-level coaches are in some way to be used on GO and connecting spurs. At the least, a touring train promoting GO's history in this year of Canada's 150th birthday is affordable in the big scheme of things, and politically advisable considering the frailty of many of the promises. 104 is already here it seems, and a few more sibling coaches, if sitting idle in Northern Ontario, appears apt to make it a show-train, either for weekend runs or special visits to promote GO rail and potential expansion.

Consider:

http://www.canadianrailwayobservations.com/croarchives/nov2012shortlines.htm

And for what H-S coaches are still being used on the Polar Bear Express, other plans are now afoot, and the H-S don't seem to be included:

• http://www.ontarionorthland.ca/en/refurbishment/polar-bear-express

I guess some are too rich and proud to look a gift-horse in the mouth?

That's a render of a refurbished ex-GO Hawker, and Ontario Northland indeed just completed the first one last year.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Exactly. Normally I'm not one for 'Rah-Rah-Rah' showcases. $1.5B for the Feds to celebrate this year is beyond belief, but something like this using *stock that Ontario already owns* is a bit of a no-brainer. It will cost something, doubtless, to clean up and repurpose some of this stock, maybe that's not possible, but if it is, why not? With the obscene amounts of money Metrolinx and the Province spend on frivolity, surely some old-fashioned 'show and tell' will pay big dividends since costs will be so low. Damn, even the Feds might chip in on the costs, and also contribute exhibits? Same train can be used to run excursions if it is in shape to doing so.

Anyone remember this?
Canada - Confederation Train - page 1 - Expo 67

It's also the 50th anniversary of GO trains this year, too.

So bring on the big 2017 service increases!

This is the year, not next year, to show up big.

 

[steveintoronto]

That's a render of a refurbished ex-GO Hawker, and Ontario Northland indeed just completed the first one last year.

Excellent! It was hard to tell from the pic, as there are other steel coaches ONR use with a similar window shape and the arced corners could be aspect distortion from the camera. Do you know anything about the 'five acquired H-S' for ONR that I saw mention of in reading?

I've just managed to get the right tags to search:

Premier Kathleen Wynne was on hand for the ribbon cutting at Ontario Northland’s Refurbishment and Repair Centre in North Bay.

The province has invested 17-million dollars into the Polar Bear Express for upgrades and modernization.

While there was no new work announced, the Premier say efforts continue in bringing in new work for the centre. “I know that there have been conversations with Metrolinx, that’s an ongoing discussion.”

Meantime, Northern Development and Mines Minister Michael Gravelle said, “We see some great opportunities in the future.”

He goes on to say they’re excited about this project, “It’s 2019 when everyone of the 16 vehicles is done.”

The project is supporting 25 jobs locally.

The refurbished rail cars will improve the travel experience for passengers, offering them new seats with electrical and USB charging, accessible washrooms, modern flooring, enhanced luggage space, comfortable dining cars and a family car.

http://www.kissnorthbay.com/2016/08/12/premier-unveils-first-16-refurbished-polar-bear-express-passenger-coaches/

Quite a few other pics and articles are now showing on Google, I'll edit and post more later. Note the connectors on the ends of the coaches! Those almost look like VIA stock now.

So the question is more pertinent than ever: Since North Bay has this figured out, and the tooling and labour specialties set-up, why not refurbish more?

[...]
The newly refurbished cars, complete with new seats, electrical and USB charging, accessible washrooms, modern flooring, enhanced luggage space, comfortable dining cars and a family car, will be rolled out every two months.

Residents in Cochrane and Moosonee will be able to tour the new cars next week.

“People will be able to check out the new equipment before it goes into service, tour it, see the enhancements on the car, try out the seats, plug in their phones, see it how it works,” explained McGlynn.“It's a good opportunity for anybody who travels on the Polar Bear Express to have a look at the new look and feel of the train and see what to expect as we're rolling out another car in October and then in December. So every two months, you will see more and more equipment coming up and being added to that train.”

The first event is taking place at the ONR station in Cochrane on Wednesday, August 17 from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m.

The second will be held at the Moosonee station the next day, August 18, from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.

“This project is really important to Ontario Northland because our passengers have been patiently waiting for this upgrade,” said McGlynn. “To be able to provide our passengers with such a modern, updated piece of equipment that is going to provide them a lot of comfort on that five-hour trip; it is a real proud moment for Ontario Northland.”[...]

http://www.timminspress.com/2016/08...llion-for-polar-bear-express-passenger-trains

Close to a hundred excellent pics here:
http://www.paullantz.com/Trains/Denis-Higgs-PBX-photos/
http://www.paullantz.com/Trains/Coach-650-in-Moosonee/
http://www.paullantz.com/keyword/coach/ (select sub-sections from list at page)

And to those of you making platform height an issue (when there is none, but hey, anything to diss an idea off the beaten path), best you study this pic closely, and then tell me where is there a high level platform between Moosonee and Cochrane perchance? Gosh, do you think that maybe, just maybe, someone's thinking outside the little Ontario box mentality to achieve something beyond the immediate market?

I say Min of Northern Development should make this car a demonstrator on the GO system along with the 'Canada 150 and GO 50 birthday celebration train' before it's needed for service on the Polar Bear Express to showcase what North Bay Shops can do, and do with perfectly re-usable H-S single level coaches that can be retrieved from other operators, along with what's still surplus at the ONR:

http://www.paullantz.com/Trains/Coach-650-in-Moosonee/i-n7H3nHk/A

Now getting back to those soon to be 'surplus' F-59s....
And a reminder:
[While there was no new work announced, the Premier says efforts continue in bringing in new work for the centre. “I know that there have been conversations with Metrolinx, that’s an ongoing discussion.”]

 

[TransitBart]

Indeed, a politician who says directly "I don't believe transit is the solution and if elected I will not invest in it" doesn't stand a chance.

However, I'm cynical enough to fear that a politician might say " I think the last guy's transit plan is not effective and is spending a lot of money for nothing. I have a better idea and if elected I will cancel the last guy's project and pursue mine instead, because it's better and cheaper. I even have a catchy name for it. Don't harass me with detailed questions about how it will work, because I'm not an engineer. But I am right." - and then we go into years of new debate, and in the meanwhile things don't get built.

- Paul

Hence the need to take this stuff out of the politicians hands. Metrolinx, come on down...

 

[steveintoronto]

Hence the need to take this stuff out of the politicians hands. Metrolinx, come on down...

I'd missed Paul's post you quote, and agree with him, and you. What isn't an option is for GO (and later Metrolinx) to be under the GTSB again, but QP is certainly using Metrolinx/GO as a convenient football and inflatable doll. The only way I can see around that is the creation of a Super-Region, discussed prior in this and other strings, and Metrolinx downloaded to it.

Except Paul, even as a proclaimed cynic, is an optimist compared to me. What's boggling is the amount of capital already thrown at GO, and the mediocre return we've gotten for it. And it's not completely Metrolinx' fault (although their executive is certainly wanting) or the concept of public transit regionally, but it lends itself to being a political target since it has become political by default.

But I'm preaching to the converted...some defend Metrolinx' decisions and wish to accept their word as orthodox. Most of us don't. GO could be so much more, but alas....

 

[TransitBart]

I'd missed Paul's post you quote, and agree with him, and you. What isn't an option is for GO (and later Metrolinx) to be under the GTSB again, but QP is certainly using Metrolinx/GO as a convenient football and inflatable doll. The only way I can see around that is the creation of a Super-Region, discussed prior in this and other strings, and Metrolinx downloaded to it.

Except Paul, even as a proclaimed cynic, is an optimist compared to me. What's boggling is the amount of capital already thrown at GO, and the mediocre return we've gotten for it. And it's not completely Metrolinx' fault (although their executive is certainly wanting) or the concept of public transit regionally, but it lends itself to being a political target since it has become political by default.

But I'm preaching to the converted...some defend Metrolinx' decisions and wish to accept their word as orthodox. Most of us don't. GO could be so much more, but alas....

See post #5518 and #5521 by @TJ O'Pootertoot - from Jan. 9 in the TYSSE: Spadina Subway Extension (TTC) thread for an idea about beefing up Metrolinx into a Metropolitan Transportation Authority style organization.

 

[steveintoronto]

See post #5518 and #5521 by @TJ O'Pootertoot...for an idea about beefing up Metrolinx into a Metropolitan Transportation Authority style organization.

Many thanks for that! I've now read those two linked, and left a post there. I must catch-up on that forum before posting further, but very glad to have been introduced. To those of us who've lived on other World Class cities, the point is an obvious one that TJ expounds so well.

On a related note, considering he's been in management @ London Underground and Sydney Public Transport, I'm puzzled by Andy Byford many times. In all fairness, he is in a cage...

 

[steveintoronto]

He worked in the Underground but, I do not think he was ever CEO. Considering construction season and the fact the election is in summer while this may be a big year I feel like we might see a lot of stuff starting construction May 2018.

Indeed, you're right, I've corrected it to "in management".