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jn_12 said:
That's true, it doesn't have to be a tourism thing, but I think that's its main function. I'd maybe make use of it as well since I'm from Welland and typically take the train/bus to St Catharines from Toronto. However, given the choice, I'd take VIA for the extra comfort (and pay the extra $10 RT). The only thing GO is doing to entice me is provide more daily service than VIA, which might make it more attractive if I absolutely cannot take one of the two trains arriving/departing in St Catharines. Perhaps it will put more pressure on VIA to make more runs into Niagara.

Also, I don't think Grimsby or Beamsville have the population to warrant a stop, but I wouldn't be against it really. However, the problem with St Catharines is that it really needs to improve it's train station and how it is connected with the rest of the city. It is isolated and difficult to get to, which to me automatically forces Brock students not to use it. Also, right now it might be the most dilapidated station VIA uses.
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I never said it wouldn't be tourism-based, I said it needn't be purely seasonal, though even Brock students would use it 'seasonally' depending on holidays and the school calendar. It'd be amazing if you could just show up to a train station anywhere in southern Ontario, buy a reasonable fare, wait a reasonable amount of time, and take the train instead of a car. If such intercity bus and train travel could be done spontaneously, it'd really eat into car traffic, especially at a perpetually congested spot like the QEW in Oakville.

It's not just Grimsby (which has about 25K people and would cost a trivial amount to serve in both time and money, and there's another 20K+ in the greater Beamsville area)...where's the Stoney Creek stop? There's a fair number of people in the area between Hamilton's GO station and St. Catharines and any additional train service connecting them to each other and to Toronto is good, whether provided by GO or VIA. And there's really nothing in a place like Grimsby, so there's plenty of incentive for Grimsbyites to seek things to do and buy outside of Grimsby. When communities are strung along a long line like they are along the QEW, GO trains basically are local transit (well, they could be).

khristopher said:
East of Hamilton you mean?
East of Burlington is Oakville.
Speaking of which, do we know which stops it will make yet?
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No, I mean east of Burlington since the trains to Niagara won't stop in Hamilton...the first stop west of St. Catharines will be Burlington, which means the first stop east of Burlington is St. Catharines.
 
To me, Grimsby seems perfectly rational. Otherwise, it'd be like only having W Lakeshore Line GO stops at Port Credit, Oakville, and Burlington en route to Hamilton...
 
jn_12 I went to Brock for a while back and one thing that is nice about transit in that city is the downtown bus terminal. I agree with you though I always wished that it also had a convenient transfer to the VIA station which is in West St. Catharines. I wonder if they could bring the trains to the nicely designed downtown bus terminal via a short tunnel? St. Kitts could also increase the frequency of its buses so that more people would actually use transit in that city. I have a friend from Guelph and that city has 20 min. service during peak hours, if they can do it I am sure a car town like St. Kitts can improve its own transit system.

The reason that I am on a GO site talking of this is that if GO's and VIA's satelite cities had better transit systems more people would be choosing transit all over Ontario because it would be a convenient option. VIA has to increase its service as well. I did hear a rumor that GO was thinking of bringing bus service to St. Catharines and the Niagara region. That might help relieve some pressure on the packed QEW during the day.
 
They really need to include Hamilton to the GO Train trip to Niagara. The two regions are closely linked together.

I suspect they'll includ Hamilton after they've completed the platform construction at the James St North GO Station. That won't be finished until this fall. VIA will also stop at that station as well. Now we just need to work on a proper shelter.
 
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scarberiankhatru said:
I never said it wouldn't be tourism-based, I said it needn't be purely seasonal, though even Brock students would use it 'seasonally' depending on holidays and the school calendar. It'd be amazing if you could just show up to a train station anywhere in southern Ontario, buy a reasonable fare, wait a reasonable amount of time, and take the train instead of a car. If such intercity bus and train travel could be done spontaneously, it'd really eat into car traffic, especially at a perpetually congested spot like the QEW in Oakville.

It's not just Grimsby (which has about 25K people and would cost a trivial amount to serve in both time and money, and there's another 20K+ in the greater Beamsville area)...where's the Stoney Creek stop? There's a fair number of people in the area between Hamilton's GO station and St. Catharines and any additional train service connecting them to each other and to Toronto is good, whether provided by GO or VIA. And there's really nothing in a place like Grimsby, so there's plenty of incentive for Grimsbyites to seek things to do and buy outside of Grimsby. When communities are strung along a long line like they are along the QEW, GO trains basically are local transit (well, they could be).
Click to expand...

We have to also remember that there's already very frequent bus service between Grimsby, St Catharines and Toronto. On CC and GH, from Toronto to Grimsby there are 21 buses, from Grimsby to Toronto there's 13 buses and 10 round trips between St Catharines and Grimsby. That's a lot of service for a tiny town.

I'm not against a stop in Stoney Creek (which is a very forgotten city), Grimsby or beamsville. Just for the population base it'd be tough to find a more serviced community than Grimsby when it comes to inter-regional travel. I'm all for servicing Niagara. It's my home and I want what is best for it and I think GO moving into Niagara could be the start of something greater. Here's hoping GO helps the region out with more inter-municipal routes.

GTS said:
jn_12 I went to Brock for a while back and one thing that is nice about transit in that city is the downtown bus terminal. I agree with you though I always wished that it also had a convenient transfer to the VIA station which is in West St. Catharines. I wonder if they could bring the trains to the nicely designed downtown bus terminal via a short tunnel? St. Kitts could also increase the frequency of its buses so that more people would actually use transit in that city. I have a friend from Guelph and that city has 20 min. service during peak hours, if they can do it I am sure a car town like St. Kitts can improve its own transit system.

The reason that I am on a GO site talking of this is that if GO's and VIA's satelite cities had better transit systems more people would be choosing transit all over Ontario because it would be a convenient option. VIA has to increase its service as well. I did hear a rumor that GO was thinking of bringing bus service to St. Catharines and the Niagara region. That might help relieve some pressure on the packed QEW during the day.
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St Catharines is a very conservative town. They don't like to spend money on anything. So a tunnel into downtown isn't going to happen. I mean the train station isn't THAT far from downtown, but downtown St Catharines is in such a weird spot (for anyone not familiar with it, it's basically built on a ridge) that it creates a lot of obstacles. I think St Catharines is kind of like the city of York in the UK where the walls of the city forced them to put the railway station away from the downtown. I don't think there's a solution here other than improving bus service within the city.

GO buses are going into Niagara eventually but I'd like to see the GObuses used to link Welland, Port Colborne, Fort Erie, Thorold, and NOTL to St Catharines and Niagara Falls where people could then pick up the GO train if they wanted to get out of Niagara, otherwise it would provide the inter-city transportation the region is desperate for. I think GO is the only way it will realistically happen without being the mishmash of services it is today.
 
jn_12 said:
We have to also remember that there's already very frequent bus service between Grimsby, St Catharines and Toronto. On CC and GH, from Toronto to Grimsby there are 21 buses, from Grimsby to Toronto there's 13 buses and 10 round trips between St Catharines and Grimsby. That's a lot of service for a tiny town.

I'm not against a stop in Stoney Creek (which is a very forgotten city), Grimsby or beamsville. Just for the population base it'd be tough to find a more serviced community than Grimsby when it comes to inter-regional travel. I'm all for servicing Niagara. It's my home and I want what is best for it and I think GO moving into Niagara could be the start of something greater. Here's hoping GO helps the region out with more inter-municipal routes.
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If trains are being added as far as Niagara Falls, it'd be real easy to add some stops in between...no special effort is required to serve a place like Stoney Creek or Grimsby.

Sooner rather than later, the QEW will get hopelessly congested and every train that replaces a bus will be a godsend (though if they build the Mid-Peninsula highway, all bets are off).

Of course, every place is different and some are better served by regional buses that can loop around malls or campuses that may not be anywhere near a rail line (Brock, NOTL, etc.).
 
Scew that. Time to dig a Lake Ontario chunnel tunnel.

It'll pay off when the NY-Toronto high-speed train comes.
 
scarberiankhatru said:
If trains are being added as far as Niagara Falls, it'd be real easy to add some stops in between...no special effort is required to serve a place like Stoney Creek or Grimsby.

Sooner rather than later, the QEW will get hopelessly congested and every train that replaces a bus will be a godsend (though if they build the Mid-Peninsula highway, all bets are off).

Of course, every place is different and some are better served by regional buses that can loop around malls or campuses that may not be anywhere near a rail line (Brock, NOTL, etc.).
Click to expand...

Does Stoney Creek have a station currently? I don't ever recall seeing one. Looking at the rail line that VIA uses, there doesn't appear to be one and most of the line runs through a developed industrial park

kettal said:
Scew that. Time to dig a Lake Ontario chunnel tunnel.

It'll pay off when the NY-Toronto high-speed train comes.
Click to expand...

Well it'd be almost the same length... but I don't think people would be interested in the $20billion+ price tag.
 
jn_12 said:
Does Stoney Creek have a station currently? I don't ever recall seeing one. Looking at the rail line that VIA uses, there doesn't appear to be one and most of the line runs through a developed industrial park
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No, Stoney Creek does not have an active CN station. This is what it looked like before it was torn down. The old TH&B station on the CP line was apparently relocated to Dundas (village) and is currently being used as a residence.

Let it be known that the only stations GO selected for this summer service are the stations that could be upgraded for little to no money. Since VIA Rail only opens one door at stations, GO had to lengthen platforms at St. Catharines and Niagara Falls to handle a 10 car train. Grimsby's VIA station is only a shelter at the railway crossing, and there are no other stations remaining. I do believe they should build more stations for when the full-time train service starts, but doing things on the cheap for the pilot project is a great way to build momentum.
 
RedRocket191 said:
No, Stoney Creek does not have an active CN station. This is what it looked like before it was torn down. The old TH&B station on the CP line was apparently relocated to Dundas (village) and is currently being used as a residence.

Let it be known that the only stations GO selected for this summer service are the stations that could be upgraded for little to no money. Since VIA Rail only opens one door at stations, GO had to lengthen platforms at St. Catharines and Niagara Falls to handle a 10 car train. Grimsby's VIA station is only a shelter at the railway crossing, and there are no other stations remaining. I do believe they should build more stations for when the full-time train service starts, but doing things on the cheap for the pilot project is a great way to build momentum.
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I agree. This is a great way to gauge demand. Just install a TVM at each station and you're good to go. I'm curious what zone Niagara Falls will be in?

Okay I see Stoney Creek is zone 80. So I guess they'd up to zone 89?

Maybe:
Stoney Creek - 80
Grimsby - 82
Lincoln/Beamsville - 83
St Catherines - 85
Niagara Falls - 89
 
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Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I agree. This is a great way to gauge demand. Just install a TVM at each station and you're good to go. I'm curious what zone Niagara Falls will be in?

Okay I see Stoney Creek is zone 80. So I guess they'd up to zone 89?

Maybe:
Stoney Creek - 80
Grimsby - 82
Lincoln/Beamsville - 83
St Catherines - 85
Niagara Falls - 89
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Zone 89 is taken by Centenial College and UofT Scarborough, but #s 81 to 85 appear to be available and 97 is the highest number used so far.
 
A. Badaraco said:
Zone 89 is taken by Centenial College and UofT Scarborough, but #s 81 to 85 appear to be available and 97 is the highest number used so far.
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OK let me revise then:

Stoney Creek - 80
Winona - 81
Grimsby/Lincoln/Beamsville - 82
Vineland Station - 83
St Catherines - 84
Niagara Falls - 85
 
I didn't know if I should make a new thread, but all the talk about GO system expansion got me wondering about the zones that GO uses. All GO zones are two digits. For the most part, GO stations in Toronto use a number that starts with 0, e.g. Union is 02. Anyway, there's less than 100 possible GO zones, so I decided to make a chart of all of them. There aren't many left, so I'll list them all:
zone 01, 10, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 36, 40, 41, 50, 59, 66, 70, 78, 79, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 90, 98, 99. (If any of these zones are already taken, please to direct me to the appropriate table if I missed it).
Anyway, I don't know why Union wasn't zone 01, and why they skipped on 10. 25-29 would be ideal for a continuation of Milton service outward through Puslinch (25), Cambridge (25), Woodstock (26), Ingersoll (27), London (28, 29). Kitchener/Waterloo could get 40, 41 (continuing from Guelph's zone 39). And I stated above, The Niagara Falls route could get 81-85.

I know it's minutiae, but I'm curious and I find it interesting.

I guess we'll see the Niagara Falls zoning numbers in the near future. If anyone knows already, feel free to share! :)
 
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