[ShonTron]

Zone 01 used to be the Toronto Bus Terminal, which is where the Hamilton QEW buses terminated.

The whole zone system needs a re-do. There's a lot of problems when they started having routes that ran between suburbs, rather than the exclusively Union-centric system they had. There's a lot of fare issues on the 407 service that really screw Brampton riders, for example.

 

[CDL.TO]

There are some minor cases in the GO network where a LONGER trip is cheaper than a SHORTER trip on the same line, due to fare oddities.

 

[DavidH]

There are a number of threads where this is relevant, but for sake of picking a place, I'll post here.

The Star is reporting that Metrolinx will announce today that they will conduct a study into electrifying the entire GO system:

GO to study electrifying its rail lines

GO Transit will begin a study this summer on electrifying its entire train system.

Metrolinx plans to announce today that the study, to be complete by winter 2010, will be overseen by an external advisory committee including community representatives, technical and environmental experts. It's likely a member of the Clean Train Coalition would be invited to join the committee, a source told the Star.

That group, composed of residents, community associations and businesses living along the Georgetown line – in the path of a huge expansion of GO service – has been pushing the province to go to cleaner electric trains rather than diesel.

GO had been planning to electrify the busy Lakeshore West corridor by 2020, but converting the Georgetown line was supposed to be at least 15 years away.

The coalition says Georgetown should happen first, because it will see 300 to 500 trains a day once GO starts all-day two-way service to Brampton and Georgetown and a high-speed rail service to the airport begins.

"Any move toward electrification is good, but I don't want them to be studying this while they're installing diesel," said Mike Sullivan, a representative with the coalition.

"The diesel plans have to be put on hold while the electrification plans proceed. If they need to be preceded by a study, let's have the study. Let's not continue with the wrong plan while we study how to do the right plan," he said.

Sullivan believes it would cost about $5 million a kilometre, or about $150 million total, to electrify the line between Brampton and downtown.

New trains will be needed anyway, and electric trains are less expensive, he said.

The assertion that diesel trains will need to be "installed" is just plain wierd.

 

[GTS]

If Ontario really wanted to clean up emissions by electrifying all the different GO lines the province should also look at where this electical power comes from. If we were serious about emissions we should close down Nanticoke and our other coal fired electrical generating stations and build more Nuclear generating stations, or, build a hydro corridor to tap into Quebec's vast hydro resources like the Boston area is currently construucting.

I do like the idea of GO being all electric though, Ontario just needs the right infrastructure in place to power these lines.

 

[nfitz]

Great move! The increased acceleration on the trains will decrease travel times! And this will take the wind out of the sails of the anti-GO folks in Weston, as that study can simply refer to future electrification in other studies.

 

[DavidH]

If Ontario really wanted to clean up emissions by electrifying all the different GO lines the province should also look at where this electical power comes from. If we were serious about emissions we should close down Nanticoke and our other coal fired electrical generating stations and build more Nuclear generating stations, or, build a hydro corridor to tap into Quebec's vast hydro resources like the Boston area is currently construucting.

I do like the idea of GO being all electric though, Ontario just needs the right infrastructure in place to power these lines.

It's not as if the lines would have exclusive power plants. They would be powered by whatever mix of generation is currently in the grid, which means that our target simply needs to be improved clean generation across the board. There are many initiatives, large and small, currently under way on this.

 

[ShonTron]

The folks in Weston should be commended for making the current proposal and process much more open, clean, and beneficial. They got about half of what they wanted, and since the first EA, GO and Metrolinx have changed their plans for the corridor. I was really sympathetic to their demands and concerns the first time around, and I am sill opposed to Blue 22, but resigned to it now.

The "NIMBY" attitude also helped to bring about the changes in the EA process, for better or worse.

Electrification can't happen overnight. It means studies, EAs, construction of substations and overhead, and new stock. Though we're moving in that direction. Score!

The remaining opposition really doesn't have too much to fight for without looking like NIMBYs, even in this sympathizer's eyes. They should at least work on the details to mitigate the effects on the plan at this point, it's happening.

 

[Calrissian]

Except thats not what Mike Sullivan is asking for, he wants the whole expansion plans for that corridor on hold until they can upgrade to electrification. Again, they're not interested in elecrtic trains or any type of trains. They/he are/is hoping to stall this thing indefinitely until either it dies, or he does.

 

[RedRocket191]

As I've said many times, I see the tracks and the wires as two separate projects that don't need to be tied together. I encourage electrification sooner rather than later, but if interim diesels can get service going faster then I say go for it. Hopefully this study leads to adding more trains beyond the ridership demand in order to better justify stringing up wires.

 

[DavidH]

Except thats not what Mike Sullivan is asking for, he wants the whole expansion plans for that corridor on hold until they can upgrade to electrification. Again, they're not interested in elecrtic trains or any type of trains. They/he are/is hoping to stall this thing indefinitely until either it dies, or he does.

I can't help but be reminded of the behaviour of my toddlers at bedtime.

 

[TOareaFan]

I can't help but be reminded of the behaviour of my toddlers at bedtime.

Your toddlers have a more legitimate case for avoiding bedtime.....see going to bed benefits 2 people (you and your spouse).....staying up benefits a similar number (I am guessing you either have 2 or 3)....so there actually is a debatable cost/benefit situation here.

I think the numbers are wee bit different when it comes from who benefits from the expansion (or lack) of that rail corridor.

 

[Voltz]

As I've said many times, I see the tracks and the wires as two separate projects that don't need to be tied together. I encourage electrification sooner rather than later, but if interim diesels can get service going faster then I say go for it. Hopefully this study leads to adding more trains beyond the ridership demand in order to better justify stringing up wires.

I agree, as long as the tracks are designed as not to preclude electrification then there is no reason to delay, overhead wires can easily be added on later.

 

[DavidH]

I think the numbers are wee bit different when it comes from who benefits from the expansion (or lack) of that rail corridor.

Yes, but my point was that when deprived of one delaying tactic, they immediately grab onto another one. Mike Sullivan is starting to strike me as using the same approach.

 

[DavidH]

Press release at http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/May2009/26/c7396.html :

TORONTO, May 26 /CNW/ - Metrolinx is going to study the electrification
of its entire GO Transit rail system as a future alternative to diesel trains
currently in service. An external advisory committee made up of community
representatives, including riders and independent technical experts, will be
established to advise Metrolinx on the Terms of Reference for the study.
"This committee's advice will be important as we move forward in
designing the study to guide us in converting GO Transit's urban rail network
from diesel to electric," said Rob Prichard, President and CEO of Metrolinx.

Among the issues the Terms of Reference could address:

- Criteria to determine the staging of electrification of GO's rail
lines
- Performance improvements for riders
- Power supply and distribution
- Union Station capacity
- Rail corridor ownership
- Urban planning benefits
- Vehicle technology options and availability
- Physical constraints
- Property impacts
- Impacts on GO capital and operating costs

"The Big Move recommends future Express Rail service throughout the GTHA,
for which electrification is an important element. This study is the critical
next step. I am very pleased that we are moving forward on this issue in a
comprehensive way," said Rob MacIsaac, Chair of Metrolinx.
The study could commence as early as this summer and be completed by
winter 2010.

Metrolinx is a Crown agency of the Province of Ontario. For more
information visit our website www.metrolinx.com.

That "its" in the first sentence is subtle but important.

 

[Dan416]

New GO stations for Oshawa? Does Oshawa really need 3? Sounds like moving the GO train to the CP tracks is what the city wants.
Looking at the Google Map, I don't see how the train would switch from the Whity on the CN line to the CP line to hit Stevenson. And then a station at Simcoe as well? They're not even 2 km apart, isn't that kinda close for GO stations to be?

Oshawa eyes new GO stations

Plan that would also include a maintenance yard awaits environmental assessment

By DON PEAT, SUN MEDIA

Last Updated: 30th May 2009, 3:35am

Three new GO train stops and a maintenance yard could be on track to Oshawa by 2013.

City councillor Robert Lutczyk told the Sun about the plan, gleaned from the Oshawa east rail feasibility study and presented to councillors this week.

The plan is set to undergo an environmental assessment this summer.

Lutczyk said GO is looking at either continuing service along the CN tracks south of Hwy. 401 or crossing north into the city's downtown along the CP tracks.

"I'm excited about the prospect of further GO train options and opportunities for people in Oshawa and surrounding area," Lutczyk said yesterday. "This is very timely and we certainly need the additional facilities."

The three potential stations could be at Stevenson Rd. and Gibb St., Simcoe St. and Olive Ave., and Bloor St. E. near Grandview Dr.

A GO train maintenance depot could also be installed after the last Oshawa station, Lutcyzk said.

"My ideal scenario is the CP line," he said. "If it's on the north side, it services residential areas and it services Simcoe St. -- that's our main north-south bus line, that's our main street, period.

"That will be a moneymaker for transit here in Oshawa."

GO Transit was tight-lipped about the feasibility study yesterday.

"This feasibility study contains preliminary information and no decision has been made about the potential route or station locations, which means we are limited in the information we are providing to the public at this point," GO spokesman Vanessa Thomas said.

An environmental assessment looking at expanding service to Bowmanville would get underway in June with a formal assessment starting in six months, she said.