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I just want to take this opportunity to once again reiterate how dumb the Cambridge to Guelph GO project is. I'm fairly certain the coming update will just kill off the project.

$500 million for a shuttle! Just run a bus! And having a station at Pinebush is so far out of Cambridge where people actually live it will be useless and tethered to a slow LRT ride. People will just drive.

It's not even worth bothering railbanking the Fergus Spur. There is very little transit potential on it and if you absolutely NEED a train to Cambridge, just extend the Milton Line. You would be better off using the land of the Fergus Spur for more productive uses when it's abandoned.
 
C_Johnson_1995 said:
I just want to take this opportunity to once again reiterate how dumb the Cambridge to Guelph GO project is. I'm fairly certain the coming update will just kill off the project.

$500 million for a shuttle! Just run a bus! And having a station at Pinebush is so far out of Cambridge where people actually live it will be useless and tethered to a slow LRT ride. People will just drive.

It's not even worth bothering railbanking the Fergus Spur. There is very little transit potential on it and if you absolutely NEED a train to Cambridge, just extend the Milton Line. You would be better off using the land of the Fergus Spur for more productive uses when it's abandoned.
Click to expand...
You can say the same thing about iON. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes as long to get from Downtown Cambridge to Waterloo as it would to get to Kitchener from Union on GO.
 
andrewmaps said:
I did this illustration for the museum in Guelph last year - maybe ION/GO street running along Waterloo into downtown Guelph can be reinstated? Exiting the Fergus sub at Silvercreek - site of the old silvercreek brewery - Who ever wudda thought?! Sorry this verging on fantasy territory!View attachment 543701
Click to expand...

Except that in 1937, the TSR was long gone.
 
ARG1 said:
You can say the same thing about iON. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes as long to get from Downtown Cambridge to Waterloo as it would to get to Kitchener from Union on GO.
Click to expand...
There's also something to be said that the idea of ION stage 2 happening at all is laughable. A brutally slow service, as you point out, for $4.5 billion! There is no sense there. No government will ever provide funding for such a poor value project. If I'm not mistaken, the Region is already exploring just enhancing bus services on the corridor instead of building LRT. There is no sense in going through the massive expense for a higher order mode when you get no benefit from it.

And even more so, without Stage 2 ION, Cambridge to Guelph GO is dead in the water. Even more than it already is as a poorly thought out proposal.
 
C_Johnson_1995 said:
I just want to take this opportunity to once again reiterate how dumb the Cambridge to Guelph GO project is. I'm fairly certain the coming update will just kill off the project.

$500 million for a shuttle! Just run a bus! And having a station at Pinebush is so far out of Cambridge where people actually live it will be useless and tethered to a slow LRT ride. People will just drive.

It's not even worth bothering railbanking the Fergus Spur. There is very little transit potential on it and if you absolutely NEED a train to Cambridge, just extend the Milton Line. You would be better off using the land of the Fergus Spur for more productive uses when it's abandoned.
Click to expand...
the price was 100-150M just 3 years a ago. certainly a victim of the recent cost expansion hitting all forms of transit in Canada. I agree that a basic bus service is the best way to begin. Someone I know at ML has already flagged the route for better bus service so we should see some updates soon?

technically speaking Pinebush is closer to where the commuters live (hespeler, east suburbs of cambridge) but ideally it should go to the core.
It's not even worth bothering railbanking the Fergus Spur. There is very little transit potential on it and if you absolutely NEED a train to Cambridge, just extend the Milton Line. You would be better off using the land of the Fergus Spur for more productive uses when it's abandoned.
Click to expand...
I would say thats incorrect. Upgrading the Milton line means full grade separation and new tracks to according to CP's wishes which is amounting to over 6 billion just for the 50km from Milton to Toronto. Expect similar amounts to get the 50km from Milton to Cambridge - expect there are 0 population centres in between so it would be a waste of money. (similar to the havelock sub ). Railbanking the Fergus Spur is the best way to go.

There's also something to be said that the idea of ION stage 2 happening at all is laughable. A brutally slow service, as you point out, for $4.5 billion! There is no sense there. No government will ever provide funding for such a poor value project. If I'm not mistaken, the Region is already exploring just enhancing bus services on the corridor instead of building LRT. There is no sense in going through the massive expense for a higher order mode when you get no benefit from it.
Click to expand...

Phase 2 isnt being bult for ridership (around 5K/day for the ion bus)(there are several buses with higher ridership near the universities) . Its being built as a consolation prize for Cambridge + support the VMC levels of density proposed in Cambridge. If the region refuses to build this project Cambridge willl relizstically block all highr order transit expansion in the region.


The notion that ION stage 2 will be an " extensively slow service" is unfounded. Large parts are totally graded separated or are off street (nonetheless following the route of the old interurban). The on street parts are completely straight compared to the many turns of stage 1. With 7 stations in 17 km I would expect it to take 30 or less minutes to Fairway. the real problem is it will feed into the slow sections of ion stage1 (reverse Eglinton situation)

ION Stage2.png
 
Last edited:
kalis0490 said:
the price was 100-150M just 3 years a ago. certainly a victim of the recent cost exposition hitting all firms of transit in Canada. I agree that a basic bus service is the best way to begin. Someone at ML I know has already flagged the route for better bus service so we should see some updates soon?

technically speaking Pinebush is closer to where the commuters live (hespeler, east suburbs of cambridge) but ideally it should go to the core.

I would say thats incorrect. Upgrading the Milton line means full grade separation and new tracks to according to CP's wishes which is amounting to over 6 billion just for the 50km from Milton to Toronto. Expect similar amounts to get the 50km from Milton to Cambridge - expect there are 0 population centres in between so it would be a waste of money. (similar to the havelock sub ). Railbanking the Fergus Spur is the best way to go.



Phase 2 isnt being bult for ridership (around 5K/day for the ion bus)(there are several buses with higher ridership near the universities) . Its being built as a consolation prize for Cambridge + support the VMC levels of density proposed in Cambridge. If the region refuses to build this project Cambridge willl relizstically block all highr order transit expansion in the region.


The notion that ION stage 2 will be an " extensively slow service" is unfounded. Large parts are totally graded separated or are off street (nonetheless following the route of the old interurban). The on street parts are completely straight compared to the many turns of stage 1. With 7 stations in 17 km I would expect it to take 30 or less minutes to Fairway. the real problem is it will feed into the slow sections of ion stage1 (reverse Eglinton situation)

View attachment 543721
Click to expand...
I agree that for the most part Phase 2 should be nowhere near as bad as Phase 1 in terms of speed. The problem is Phase 1 iON with all its faults still exists. Yesterday I took iON from Fairway to uWaterloo and it took ~35m. In all likelihood, Fairway to Downtown Cambridge will take 20-25m. That's still ~45m to get from Downtown Cambridge to the Waterloo/Kitchener border, which I shouldn't have to say is still extremely slow.
 
C_Johnson_1995 said:
I just want to take this opportunity to once again reiterate how dumb the Cambridge to Guelph GO project is. I'm fairly certain the coming update will just kill off the project.

$500 million for a shuttle! Just run a bus! And having a station at Pinebush is so far out of Cambridge where people actually live it will be useless and tethered to a slow LRT ride. People will just drive.
Click to expand...

The more I hear of this, the more I am starting to agree that it may not be a good answer to the problem.
C_Johnson_1995 said:
It's not even worth bothering railbanking the Fergus Spur. There is very little transit potential on it and if you absolutely NEED a train to Cambridge, just extend the Milton Line. You would be better off using the land of the Fergus Spur for more productive uses when it's abandoned.
Click to expand...
This is where you and I may differ. Keeping the ROW intact for future LRT usage would be prudent. As the 3 cites grow into this area, an LRT ROW would be good to have in place ready when needed.
 
ARG1 said:
I agree that for the most part Phase 2 should be nowhere near as bad as Phase 1 in terms of speed. The problem is Phase 1 iON with all its faults still exists. Yesterday I took iON from Fairway to uWaterloo and it took ~35m. In all likelihood, Fairway to Downtown Cambridge will take 20-25m. That's still ~45m to get from Downtown Cambridge to the Waterloo/Kitchener border, which I shouldn't have to say is still extremely slow.
Click to expand...
The sections of the ION phase 1 that are on the right side of the road, were a bad choice. You have to go super slow to not be a danger to pedestrians, bikes, people driving out of driveways etc.

Thats something you do with a streetcar, not an LRT.
 
robmausser said:
The sections of the ION phase 1 that are on the right side of the road, were a bad choice. You have to go super slow to not be a danger to pedestrians, bikes, people driving out of driveways etc.

Thats something you do with a streetcar, not an LRT.
Click to expand...

There's no reason they couldn't go the same speed as traffic running right next to the LRT. The same dangers that are presented to an LRT(Bikes, Pedestrians, Driveways) are the exact same as those presented to cars driving on the road, if it's safe for a car/transport truck to drive 60kmh there's no reason the LRT can't.
 
Bojaxs said:
There's a guy posting on the GO Transit Reddit who seems to have a good grasp of the working culture at Metrolinx. A disgruntled, former employee? He doesn't believe that the Milton line expansion will happen. Apparently MX doesn't want to play ball with CP over track rights.

View attachment 539847
Click to expand...
You know that through midtown there is a third track in some places that are used as sidings to store surplus cars. Those sidings could be converted into main line track and store cars in less expensive real estate. Or convert the York sub to be double track and have CN and CP share the corridor for trains that bypass Toronto. Be able to go from Milton to Montreal without using the Milton line.
 
Bordercollie said:
You know that through midtown there is a third track in some places that are used as sidings to store surplus cars. Those sidings could be converted into main line track and store cars in less expensive real estate. Or convert the York sub to be double track and have CN and CP share the corridor for trains that bypass Toronto. Be able to go from Milton to Montreal without using the Milton line.
Click to expand...

Or do both. Heck, running GO trains on the York Sub at the top of the city may eventually be a good thing too,
 
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