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I don't think it's few people. Kitchener-Waterloo have going on 400,000 people. In Europe, a city of 400,000 that's 100km away from another major city would be connected by dozens of trains a day. Why would nobody board the DMUs once they overlapped with the electric service? The whole point is that they're express. If I were in Brampton and going to Union, I'd obviously board the DMU that would make one or two stops at most rather than the electric train that would make twenty or so. The point is to cut back the electric service to a reasonable distance so that you can increase the stop frequency and make it a genuine urban service. You then need a second level of service with less frequent stops to pick up the slack for longer trips.

This relates back to another proposal that I've put on here a couple times, the 3 train rush hour configuration. Assuming the service is at least 3 tracked and electrified, I envision rush hour service operating like this: One train does the milk run, stopping at all stations from end to end. One train does all the stops in the 905, but once it reaches the limits of the City of Toronto (plus or minus 1 station) it goes express to Union. The third train does all local stops inside of Toronto, but stops once it reaches the edge of the City (again, plus or minus 1 station).

So even though people would be transferring trains, they would still get an express ride through Toronto. The added transfer would add only a few minutes to the trip, but would save thousands in operating costs.

Again, with these DMUs I'm thinking pretty short trains. As for frequency, for the Kitchener-Georgetown route, I would think that hourly service off-peak and 15 min service during peak would be more than sufficient.

It's also interesting to note that between Kitchener, Cambridge, and Guelph there's a series of rail lines that basically make a looped triangle between the 3 cities. The only exception is Guelph, which would have a short stub line into their main station. It would be interesting to see if a bi-directional DMU service could be implemented along this triangle.

This could become especially important because the growth plan for that area has Kitchener-Cambridge-Guelph basically growing into one another, at which point a rail service (2 rail lines if you do the triangle) would become very important.
 
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This relates back to another proposal that I've put on here a couple times, the 3 train rush hour configuration. Assuming the service is at least 3 tracked and electrified, I envision rush hour service operating like this: One train does the milk run, stopping at all stations from end to end. One train does all the stops in the 905, but once it reaches the limits of the City of Toronto (plus or minus 1 station) it goes express to Union. The third train does all local stops inside of Toronto, but stops once it reaches the edge of the City (again, plus or minus 1 station).

So even though people would be transferring trains, they would still get an express ride through Toronto. The added transfer would add only a few minutes to the trip, but would save thousands in operating costs.

Again, with these DMUs I'm thinking pretty short trains. As for frequency, for the Kitchener-Georgetown route, I would think that hourly service off-peak and 15 min service during peak would be more than sufficient.

It's also interesting to note that between Kitchener, Cambridge, and Guelph there's a series of rail lines that basically make a looped triangle between the 3 cities. The only exception is Guelph, which would have a short stub line into their main station. It would be interesting to see if a bi-directional DMU service could be implemented along this triangle.

This could become especially important because the growth plan for that area has Kitchener-Cambridge-Guelph basically growing into one another, at which point a rail service (2 rail lines if you do the triangle) would become very important.

While I do like the idea (obviously) I think there are a few things that would be worth noting when considering the feasibility of local rail connections in this area.

First, Waterloo Region is planning on building a rapid transit line between Waterloo and Cambridge, so a DMU would duplicate much of the service on this line. In addition, the existing rail line owned by CP in Cambridge is heavily used by freight trains to Toyota. The left side of this triangle will essentially made up by the LRT.

Second, instead of purchasing DMUs, I think it would be more beneficial to extend the electrification of the Kitchener line to Georgetown and then be running EMUs.

Until the line is double tracked and CTC (centralized traffic control) is in place, I don't see this kind of service being feasible. Apparently VIA is currently in the process of challenging GEXR on their portion of costs associated with making track upgrades and placing CTC on the line. In any case, GEXR's lease on the line is up for review in 2018, at which point hopefully CN or GO could buy out the lease for the track between Silver Junction and London/Stratford/Baden. Hopefully by this point, there will also be some sort of challenge to FRA regulations concerning vehicle weight and required operating personnel that will make both the purchase and operation of EMUs more economical.

The main thing that needs to happen now is that a local transit link between GRT and Guelph Transit needs to exist before 2015, so that intercity transit demand can be built up when Highway 7 goes under another round of funding consideration, otherwise EMU/DMU service won't happen. A transit connection needs to exist so there is justification to divert some highway funds to the expansion of the parallel rail corridor.
 
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New Allandale Waterfront Station, on the 29th of February at the South Shore Rotary Club at 8 by Keep the Future at Bay, from what i've heard the proposal for the vacant lane the 4 acres or so will be released.

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The tunnel that links both sides
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I'm looking at those photos...........

And I'm curious.....

2 tracks for a terminal station?

Hardly necessary.

Except....

I just recently started hearing rumbles.......

About extending rail to Orillia.

Now much as I like that idea in theory, I had discounted it, given my understanding that Barrie had developed over the original ROW.

But 2 tracks?

And new rumbles.......

Hmmmmm
 
Trains crawl through Guelph and again at the Grand River bridge. Fortunately, VIA seems to finally be planning to invest in improving the quality of the tracks. They should just buy them from GEXR and be done with it.

Trains are restricted to 10mph from mile 48.8 to 49.8 but this is the zone speed not a slow order. Meaning its not the track conditions that restrict train speeds in this area but rather the track geometry (level crossings - with poor sightlines and the yard leads/switches). Of course that doesn't mean these issues can't be rectified, its just means that it will be more expensive (grade separations and track realignments) and therefore it might take longer than we'd like. Likewise, the slow order at the Grand River bridges would also require expensive repairs.


In any case, GEXR's lease on the line is up for review in 2018, at which point hopefully CN or GO could buy out the lease for the track between Silver Junction and London/Stratford/Baden. Hopefully by this point, there will also be some sort of challenge to FRA regulations concerning vehicle weight and required operating personnel that will make both the purchase and operation of EMUs more economical.

Hopefully GO/VIA will be able to negotiate something with CN. But I'm not completely sure how such agreements work, i.e GEXR still might have 'first dibs' on extending their lease with CN (deepening on how profitable the line is at that time and how much control they want to retain). Hopefully some form of governmental pressure is brought to bear on them if that's the case. Not sure about the FRA regulations but the operating personal requirements might be relaxed as early as 2015 for the ARL, provided certain safety systems/considerations are implemented.
 
I'm looking at those photos...........

And I'm curious.....

2 tracks for a terminal station?

Hardly necessary.

Except....

I just recently started hearing rumbles.......

About extending rail to Orillia.

Now much as I like that idea in theory, I had discounted it, given my understanding that Barrie had developed over the original ROW.

But 2 tracks?

And new rumbles.......

Hmmmmm

Sorry to disappoint but that 2nd track has nothing to do with extending the rails to Orillia. Rather that's the mainline for the Barrie-Collingwood Railway. And Collingwood just recently withdrew is funding for the line so even its future is in doubt.
 
I just recently started hearing rumbles.......

About extending rail to Orillia.

Now much as I like that idea in theory, I had discounted it, given my understanding that Barrie had developed over the original ROW.

I have never been to see myself, but everything I have read here said that the rails were ripped up, the ROW sold to private developers and the corridor built on in several places and that further expansion is impossible, at least without a very long circuitous route and some new track.

If Orillia is going to get something, it will probably be a bus connection.
 
Ugh. We are already pushing the limits of a commuter rail network with Barrie(Allendale), it's a 1 hr train ride!!!!!

Barrie feels like the natural end of the GO rail network given it is the largest municipality in the region and really the main hub of the region. I'd like to see some GO bus routes built up around this station now. Say Collingwood (if the Barrie-Collingwood rail service is killed), Orillia, Wasaga, Penetang/Midland, etc. I'm not sure what passenger numbers might be but I do see Barrie as the business hub of the Central Ontario Recreation Area being able to grow a bit provided good connections to it's neighboring communities.
 
There's currently no passenger service between Barrie and Collingwood; just freight. And I agree that Barrie is a logical end to the rail network for commuting, but a tourist train on the weekends to Collingwood/Blue Mountain/Wasaga Beach could be successful.
 
I'd be nice to see GO use Allandale as a regional hub for simcoe country, such as traveling to the ski resorts or just improving bus service in barrie.
 
Unfortunately, the current end of track in Collingwood is well to the south of the town centre, as the track leading to the station and harbour was taken up a decade ago. I would also agree that buses should do the job, radiating out from Barrie to places like Angus, Collingwood, Midland and Orillia, especially if Barrie gets the planned midday and weekend service.

It is true that the track west of Utopia (where the BCRY meets the CP mainline and where its freight is interchanged) is threatened, but the rest of BCRY should be fine, it still has a number of customers in Barrie and Innisfil. I don't think that the upgrades needed to make passenger rail viable to Collingwood has an economic case, especially if the only place to put a terminus is out at the far southeast corner of the town. Restoring passenger rail to Peterborough has a much stronger case.
 
I'm looking at those photos...........

And I'm curious.....

2 tracks for a terminal station?

Hardly necessary.

Except....

I just recently started hearing rumbles.......

About extending rail to Orillia.

Now much as I like that idea in theory, I had discounted it, given my understanding that Barrie had developed over the original ROW.

But 2 tracks?

And new rumbles.......

Hmmmmm

The rumbles that you've been hearing are obviously not familiar with the railway history in the area.

First off, the station is only on one track - the northern-most one. The southern one is the through track for the Barrie-Collingwood Railway. There is no platform on it.

Second, the tracks further north through Orillia and thence to Washago were torn up in 1996, and quite a bit of the land on which they ran through Barrie sold. Rebuilding them is not a very likely proposition. The more likely way to access Orillia by rail - provided the rail was reinstalled, of course - would be via the CN Bala Sub (on which the Richmond Hill line runs) to Washago, and then turning back south. Not the most efficient way to travel, methinks.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
passenger rail to Peterborough - such a good idea! but how do you get it to union in toronto? last time i google mapped the train line from Pbo to To it goes on the track that goes between dupont and davenport. also what other stops would you add to make it profitable?
 

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