[crs1026]

Arrived yesterday to find VIA and GO sharing platforms 20/21. There was a GO employee standing at the top and bottom of both the escalators - the stairwells on the east side of the VIA concourse are both escalators, one up and one down. There were VIA employees guarding the west side escalators - VIA 63 had arrived and was offloading when I went through - I’m not sure if the VIA staff were posted there for long periods, but the same bored looking GO staff were there a couple hours later in my return trip.
The VIA side seemed to have a lot of clutter on it - various construction style boxes. It ought to be kept clear of such things.

- Paul

 

[drum118]

Sept 10
Was looking at the east end of the headhouse for the first time in a long time and noticed 3 platforms have been built east of the headhouse. I expect it has to do with the platform that becomes very narrow toward the east end of the platform for one of them for safety issues that require a longer walk to a very narrow staircase or to the one further west of it.

The plan at one time was to have platforms longer outside the headhouse to allow 2 trains on the track at the same time going in opposite direction, but got change.

Been to Europe stub track terminals that push more trains in/out of the terminal on less track that what ML is planning for. Cannot see why ML can't do this with the number of tracks been plan for as well having 2 trains on each tracks that will be shorter than today trains with better headway.

 

[Bordercollie]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1534960987232772097

When they built these platforms 10ish years ago did they not know that we would need more capacity? I feel like we are going around in circles.

Do we still need two tracks for freight by-pass?

 

[innsertnamehere]

When they built these platforms 10ish years ago did they not know that we would need more capacity? I feel like we are going around in circles.

Do we still need two tracks for freight by-pass?

They are closer to 20 years old now and yes, plans for GO expansion have changed substantially since even building the glass atrium part of the platforms. Back then the plan was mostly for hourly service on the non lakeshore lines and 30 minute service on Lake Shore and that’s it.

 

[APTA-2048]

When they built these platforms 10ish years ago did they not know that we would need more capacity? I feel like we are going around in circles.

Do we still need two tracks for freight by-pass?

I feel like they also should have known we needed wider platforms too. Someone can correct me: but I think after all the initial construction, they’re gonna rip out some of what they’ve done to widen the platforms and remove some of the tracks.

 

[drum118]

All the main train stations in Europe had wider platforms than Union as well different type of overhead,

Frankfurt, Hamburg, Berlin, Milano, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Zurich, Paris, London just to name a few have high ceiling that cover 8 or more tracks at the same time. Rome airport station covers 4 tracks. Rome, Venice, Brussel have platform roof only. Stockholm has a combination of high overhead cover as well platform roof.

Not sure why low overhead cover was used for Union considering it was built after the ones in Europe other than Milano.

As much I am for retaining heritage structures, time has come to raise the roof.

I cannot see why Union that is a through track station, cannot move more trains than stub ends can do in Europe. Seen 2 different trains on the same track at the same time going in opposite direction that that was supposed to be the plan for Union.

Platforms and stairs have always been an issue once trains started to grow to 12 cars as well having more trains arriving at the same time. Bad enough having 1200 getting off a train, but 2400 came even more an issues when 2 trains arrive at the same time.

Current plan is to remove every other track or so to allow wider platforms.

.CN doesn't run freight trains through Union these days unless it really have considering it still has running rights in the corridor. Used to see a noon train and have a few videos/photos of the moves.

 

[Bordercollie]

All the main train stations in Europe had wider platforms than Union as well different type of overhead,

Frankfurt, Hamburg, Berlin, Milano, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Zurich, Paris, London just to name a few have high ceiling that cover 8 or more tracks at the same time. Rome airport station covers 4 tracks. Rome, Venice, Brussel have platform roof only. Stockholm has a combination of high overhead cover as well platform roof.

Not sure why low overhead cover was used for Union considering it was built after the ones in Europe other than Milano.

As much I am for retaining heritage structures, time has come to raise the roof.

I cannot see why Union that is a through track station, cannot move more trains than stub ends can do in Europe. Seen 2 different trains on the same track at the same time going in opposite direction that that was supposed to be the plan for Union.

Platforms and stairs have always been an issue once trains started to grow to 12 cars as well having more trains arriving at the same time. Bad enough having 1200 getting off a train, but 2400 came even more an issues when 2 trains arrive at the same time.

Current plan is to remove every other track or so to allow wider platforms.

.CN doesn't run freight trains through Union these days unless it really have considering it still has running rights in the corridor. Used to see a noon train and have a few videos/photos of the moves.

I thought they no longer allow two trains to occupy one platform due to an accident that took place.

 

[smallspy]

I thought they no longer allow two trains to occupy one platform due to an accident that took place.

Right now, they don't allow two trains to occupy one track.

The new signal system will fix this.

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

A bit unrelated but are they currently already removing the harbour lead line and Keating yard? I can't believe they rather convert parkland into storage when they could use the Keating yard. I'm sure it could hold 3x12 car trainsets.

 

[CharmAlarm]

Progress shot of platform work on the south side:

 

[DSC]

A bit unrelated but are they currently already removing the harbour lead line and Keating yard? I can't believe they rather convert parkland into storage when they could use the Keating yard. I'm sure it could hold 3x12 car trainsets.

A VERY large bit unrelated and rather unrealistic. The Keating Yard is/was reached by one track and crosses/crossed the Don on a narrow bridge (which is being removed due to the Don River and Lake Shore Projects. The yard could also certainly not have held 12-car trains.

 

[smallspy]

The yard could also certainly not have held 12-car trains.

It may have taken a wee bit of reconfiguration for a couple of the northern tracks, but my math says otherwise.

In any case, it's all moot.

Dan

 

[blacksquirrels]

All the main train stations in Europe had wider platforms than Union as well different type of overhead,

Frankfurt, Hamburg, Berlin, Milano, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Zurich, Paris, London just to name a few have high ceiling that cover 8 or more tracks at the same time. Rome airport station covers 4 tracks. Rome, Venice, Brussel have platform roof only. Stockholm has a combination of high overhead cover as well platform roof.

Not sure why low overhead cover was used for Union considering it was built after the ones in Europe other than Milano.

As much I am for retaining heritage structures, time has come to raise the roof.

I cannot see why Union that is a through track station, cannot move more trains than stub ends can do in Europe. Seen 2 different trains on the same track at the same time going in opposite direction that that was supposed to be the plan for Union.

Platforms and stairs have always been an issue once trains started to grow to 12 cars as well having more trains arriving at the same time. Bad enough having 1200 getting off a train, but 2400 came even more an issues when 2 trains arrive at the same time.

Current plan is to remove every other track or so to allow wider platforms.

.CN doesn't run freight trains through Union these days unless it really have considering it still has running rights in the corridor. Used to see a noon train and have a few videos/photos of the moves.

do you or does anyone else know what the theoretically maximum number of GO trains and/or commuters Union station could handle per hour if fully optimized?

that's with wider platforms, through running, a new signal system and a new fleet for GO etc...

I've read a couple of different yet conflicting reports on this topic, so if someone more knowledgable than me could chime in I would appreciated it.

 

[DSC]

do you or does anyone else know what the theoretically maximum number of GO trains and/or commuters Union station could handle per hour if fully optimized?

that's with wider platforms, through running, a new signal system and a new fleet for GO etc...

I've read a couple of different yet conflicting reports on this topic, so if someone more knowledgable than me could chime in I would appreciated it.

I have no answer but it would clearly depend on whether you were starting with a blank slate (i.e. no station building 'in the way') or if you are working with the current station/sheds.

 

[blacksquirrels]

I have no answer but it would clearly depend on whether you were starting with a blank slate (i.e. no station building 'in the way') or if you are working with the current station/sheds.

I guess I'm answering my own question here, but here's a table with various scenarios from a study.

Barrie + Richmond Hill (through service) = 12 trains per hour per direction
Kitchener + Stouffville (through service) = 12 trains per hour per direction
Lakeshore East + West (tunnelled through service) = 12 trains per hour per direction
Milton = 7 trains per hour per direction
UPX = 4 trains per hour per direction
VIA = 7 trains per hour

I don't know these estimates seem low to me, especially considering the Lakeshores Lines would be underground in this model. I guess this is the best case scenario though as far as I can tell.