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I always thought HSR was a Liberal hail mary.

This will go on the back-burner with their impending defeat.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Ottawa is a sprawl king for sure though, the apartment market is almost non-existent and the city sprawls at a rapid pace over it's greenbelt.
Click to expand...

I have been financing commercial real estate for about 30 years now and Ottawa has always been one of the larger apartment markets in the country....so you can't possibly mean existing housing stock.....in 2017 they had a good year for housing starts in Ottawa with starts of single unit buildings up around 15%....but that was far outpaced by the growth units in multi-unit projects which were up over 50% .....so you can't mean the new supply is skewed away from multi-unit buildings.

So I have to ask....In what way is the apartment market non-existent in Ottawa?
 
There is very little new construction in the downtown. Non-existent may have been an over-elaboration.. but it's generally a small portion of the market. And much of it comes in the form of townhouses or walkups in the burbs. A lot of stuff like this, not much stuff like this.

Ottawa has indeed picked up recently.. it was one of the fastest growing CMAs in 2017. Perhaps that new growth is translating to increased apartment construction, but up until recently, there was relatively little new apartment construction, with the burbs growing quite quickly.
 
kEiThZ said:
Don't bother. I've argued we should be more practical. And for that @MisterF labelled me being opposed to rail. If you don't pass his bullshit personal purity test on high speed rail, you hate public transport apparently.
Click to expand...
I never made any such claim. I did conclude at one point that you were against high speed rail, which is much different. In any case, our positions aren't all that far apart, so I don't know where the hostility is coming from. Is there something specific that you'd like to debate?
 
MisterF said:
I never made any such claim. I did conclude at one point that you were against high speed rail, which is much different. In any case, our positions aren't all that far apart, so I don't know where the hostility is coming from. Is there something specific that you'd like to debate?
Click to expand...

Exactly what I mean.

I have never been against HSR. I am, however, for whatever gets shovels in the ground faster. And there's no point having discussions with ideological purists, who think practicality is surrender.
 
mdrejhon said:
I understand induced demand but population is going to grow over the years.

So one has to ask:
Do we add freeway lanes, or do we expand by HSR instead?
I prefer HSR over extra freeway lanes.
Even if there is not fewer cars compared to today, it is still fewer cars than continued freeway expansions and widenings.
Click to expand...


I agree with everything you just said but that was not my point.

My point was that HSR advocates keep bringing up how this will reduce emissions which is a complete lie and David Suzuki and company know it. The general population also know that it`s crap and that`s not a great way to build public support. By using this flawed logic they also set themselves up for failure and bring any potential expansions or increased financing to a screeching halt.

When these lines are built {like Toronto/London} people {and the political opponents of HSR} will see that there will be no reductions in emissions so they can legitimately say that they were lied to and it was just an VERY expensive vote buying scheme and so will be adverse to spending even more of their hard earned tax dollars on expanding it or even funding the current system.

You are correct that this is about offering true alternatives to driving but that is how it should be presented. The public has the right to know the reasons for it`s construction and the huge sums that will go towards it. Doing otherwise is not an affront to Ontarians.
 
As for HSR will a Ford administration, the project is dead.

London & Windsor are NDP territory with KW a mixed bag, and Guelph potentially going Green. He will study {aka delay } the line as he will see no political gain in pushing it forward as it will not help his base of support in the 905 or Eastern Ontario. As far as Tor/Ott/Mon HSR that will also be dead as it will but a much bigger ticket item and due to crossing provinces will just say it`s a federal problem and let them deal {also aka delay} with the problem.
 
innsertnamehere said:
There is very little new construction in the downtown. Non-existent may have been an over-elaboration.. but it's generally a small portion of the market. And much of it comes in the form of townhouses or walkups in the burbs. A lot of stuff like this, not much stuff like this.

Ottawa has indeed picked up recently.. it was one of the fastest growing CMAs in 2017. Perhaps that new growth is translating to increased apartment construction, but up until recently, there was relatively little new apartment construction, with the burbs growing quite quickly.
Click to expand...
What isn't open to question is the traffic congestion:
Ottawa 4th most congested city in Canada according to study | CTV ...
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-4th-most-congested-city-in-canada-according-to-stud...

Ottawa is Canada's fourth-most congested city: study | CTV Ottawa News
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-is-canada-s-fourth-most-congested-city-study-1.3293...

Ottawa is the fourth most congested Canadian city | Ottawa Sun
ottawasun.com/.../ottawa...fourth-most-congested-canadian-city/.../612ade89-be05-4346...
Feb 20, 2017 - Ottawa is the fourth most congested Canadian city, with capital commuters spending 31.5 hours last year stuck in traffic during peak travel ...
Ottawa is the fourth most congested Canadian city: report | Ottawa ...
ottawacitizen.com › News › Local News

Traffic jams: Ottawa is third most congested city in Canada, says ...
ottawacitizen.com › News › Local News

Ottawa ranks 4th-worst in congestion among Canadian cities | Ottawa ...
www.obj.ca/article/ottawa-ranks-4th-worst-congestion-among-canadian-cities

Ranking: These Are Canada's Most Congested Cities - Notable Life
https://notablelife.com/canadas-most-congested-cities/

Canada's worst cities for spending hours and hours in traffic ...
https://globalnews.ca/news/3261815/canada-worst-traffic/

Ottawa Ranks 4th In A Study Of Traffic Congested Canadian Cities ...
985thejewel.com › Annoucer Blogs › Steve Boyton
 
innsertnamehere said:
There is very little new construction in the downtown. Non-existent may have been an over-elaboration.. but it's generally a small portion of the market. And much of it comes in the form of townhouses or walkups in the burbs. A lot of stuff like this, not much stuff like this.

Ottawa has indeed picked up recently.. it was one of the fastest growing CMAs in 2017. Perhaps that new growth is translating to increased apartment construction, but up until recently, there was relatively little new apartment construction, with the burbs growing quite quickly.
Click to expand...
the really interesting thing about Ottawa is that 61% of the multi-unit starts in 2017 were rental (as opposed to condo)....which is a very high number (for comparison purposes, in the GTA it was 11%).
 
steveintoronto said:
What isn't open to question is the traffic congestion:
Ottawa 4th most congested city in Canada according to study | CTV ...
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-4th-most-congested-city-in-canada-according-to-stud...

Ottawa is Canada's fourth-most congested city: study | CTV Ottawa News
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-is-canada-s-fourth-most-congested-city-study-1.3293...

Ottawa is the fourth most congested Canadian city | Ottawa Sun
ottawasun.com/.../ottawa...fourth-most-congested-canadian-city/.../612ade89-be05-4346...
Feb 20, 2017 - Ottawa is the fourth most congested Canadian city, with capital commuters spending 31.5 hours last year stuck in traffic during peak travel ...
Ottawa is the fourth most congested Canadian city: report | Ottawa ...
ottawacitizen.com › News › Local News

Traffic jams: Ottawa is third most congested city in Canada, says ...
ottawacitizen.com › News › Local News

Ottawa ranks 4th-worst in congestion among Canadian cities | Ottawa ...
www.obj.ca/article/ottawa-ranks-4th-worst-congestion-among-canadian-cities

Ranking: These Are Canada's Most Congested Cities - Notable Life
https://notablelife.com/canadas-most-congested-cities/

Canada's worst cities for spending hours and hours in traffic ...
https://globalnews.ca/news/3261815/canada-worst-traffic/

Ottawa Ranks 4th In A Study Of Traffic Congested Canadian Cities ...
985thejewel.com › Annoucer Blogs › Steve Boyton
Click to expand...

lol st john's is #3??? what kind of crazy study is this?
 
steveintoronto said:
Perhaps accessing the links would tell you?
https://globalnews.ca/news/3261815/canada-worst-traffic/

Here's the latest (2017) one:
http://inrix.com/resources/inrix-2017-global-traffic-scorecard/
Click to expand...
One of the links you posted, the one below, show's st johns as #3. It is certianly way, way, way, way (Did I mention way?) behind at the very least Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and Vancouver.

https://notablelife.com/canadas-most-congested-cities/

Ottawa being #4 doesn't surprise me however, it sounds about right. It is Canada's 6th largest city and #4/5 are not much larger, with much larger freeway networks.
 
innsertnamehere said:
One of the links you posted, the one below, show's st johns as #3. It is certianly way, way, way, way (Did I mention way?) behind at the very least Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and Vancouver.
Click to expand...
The methodology is described in the reports.
With population and economic growth around the world pressuring urban mobility, applying big data to understand and combat congestion is critical to the development of our cities. The INRIX Global Trafc Scorecard provides a data-rich evaluation of urban travel, trafc health and vibrancy across ve continents. The visualization below includes the INRIX ranking of 100 major cities analyzed out of the 1,360 ranked overall. These cities are ranked by the number of peak hours the average commuter spent in congestion in 2017. GLOBAL TRAFFIC SCORECARD For the complete Global INRIX 2017 Trafc Scorecard, visit inrix.com/scorecard
Click to expand...
The study is cited by the CAA. *ANY* survey has outliers which defy filtered rationale. None more so at this juncture in time than the Ontario election...
 
muller877 said:
If the HSR proposal does subdivide farms this will permit not only the land on the HSR to be stolen away from our agricultural supply of land but it will allow these new parcels of land to also be used for an additional house (in rural areas this means 1 acre of land gone). And if it is too small (i.e. 2o acres or less) it will become a hobby farm and not be very productive.
Click to expand...

This is why I think there should be divisions AND mergers, with inconvenienced farmers not being charged for the related surveying and paperwork. It wouldn't be perfect of course, and some land would be lost to the rail corridor forever (but less than would be lost to the equivalent capacity in highway lanes), but at least we could still have X number of large farms when all was said and done instead of 2 or 2.5 * X number of smaller farms and properties.
 
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