[Whoaccio]

I would point out that liberalism is about more than being tolerant of sexual preference. That's definitely part of it, but ranking how liberal a city is based around homosexual tolerance isn't really useful. You can't even sell street food here without going through some kind of Kafka-esque bureaucratic nightmare worthy of East Germany, so how liberal are we at the end of the day? I remember watching a 20/20 segment on Hong Kong where John Stossel actually set up a business selling 20/20 hats in under a day. That's liberalism. In Toronto you would probably get shutdown by some confluence of NIMBYistic neighborhood associations claiming your restaurant is an affront to moral decency or one of the dozens of bureaucrats who exist to enforce arbitrary standards. The entire strain of Toronto benevolent "we are smarter than you" bureaucracy that has banned everything from Sunday shopping to lane-way housing and private liquor sales is wholly illiberal.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Was that a joke? If so I didn't get it. Hitler was of course a right-wing extremist ...

NAZI was the acronym for the National Socialist Party, i.e. socialist. If you look at what Hitler did under this Socialist banner it's not much different than what Stalin did under his Communist one. They both murdered millions, invaded and occupied their neighbours, crushed opposition, etc.

I don't think left or right is the way to properly categorize Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Amin, Pol Pot, etc. These were all evil men using whatever political means to get what they wanted.

 

[Second_in_pie]

NAZI was the acronym for the National Socialist Party, i.e. socialist. If you look at what Hitler did under this Socialist banner it's not much different than what Stalin did under his Communist one. They both murdered millions, invaded and occupied their neighbours, crushed opposition, etc.

I don't think left or right is the way to properly categorize Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Amin, Pol Pot, etc. These were all evil men using whatever political means to get what they wanted.

I'd just leave it at "Evil" doesn't have a place on the political spectrum.
The Nazi party, like you said, was and is an acronym for "National Socialist." The party platform was based on very leftist values, which fit very well with the huge economic downturn that Germany was going through at the time. Apart from the whole murdering millions of people thing, they preached everyone having the money they need, new jobs for everyone, etc. etc.

 

[adma]

And for a Canadian comparison point, back in the 1930s, the CCF and Social Credit weren't terribly dissimilar in their fundamental goals and appeal, even if only the former bore the "socialist" brand...

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

guilt by association

the nazis were the first to link cigarette smoking & cancer and they banned german women from having abortions. therefore anti-tobaccoists and anti-abortionists are nazis! socialism or the left has as much to do with the third reich as much as charlie chaplin has to do with the third reich because of his moustache.

not defending political ideologies, just pointing out flaws in logic. though i do agree that the more authority a political group has, the more ability it has to do evil. like an operating system with security flaws, a political ideology like socialism isn't inherently evil but its flaws can sure as hell be exploited thus causing the operating system (political ideology) to be used for a malicious purpose.

 

[Whoaccio]

You can't really put nazism on a left-right spectrum, it just doesn't make sense. The entire point of nazism was to dissolve things like the left/right spectrum into some kind of national, post-partisan, volksgemeinschaft. Left/right spectrum, as far as nazism is concerned, is just an artifact of weak democracy and usurious capitalism undermining the volk. I mean, yea, the nazis banned abortion amongst german women, but they then mandated it for those deemed socially undesirable. How do you plot that? Abortion bans seem right wing enough, but eugenics programs are really more of a left wing thing (look no further than Tommy Douglas).

Nazism is a bit like the Chewbaca defense, it just doesn't make sense ladies and gentlemen. It's ridled with internal contradictions, inconsistencies and has no centrally defining aspect other than a kind of virulent populism mixed with xenophobia, neither of which have any left/right nature. Reducio ad nazism never really makes sense because of it.

 

[nfitz]

NAZI was the acronym for the National Socialist Party, i.e. socialist.

You have to be kidding me. Your trying to tell me that a facsist party is left-wing because it has the name socialist in it? That has to be about the most ignorant comment I have ever heard in my entire life! Next you going to tell me that North Korea is a democracy because it has the name Democratic in it's title!

To suggest that the Nazis are a left-wing party is shameful, and bordering on a hate-crime! Their policies have been well documented!

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

you know, that jesus fellow seems to be very left wing. even hugo chavez called him the greatest socialist! christians of the world unite!

 

[doady]

Yeah Jesus was definitely a hippie. Probably the first hippie ever.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Yeah Jesus was definitely a hippie. Probably the first hippie ever.

you know who else was a hippie? charles manson.

 

[Tewder]

I would point out that liberalism is about more than being tolerant of sexual preference. That's definitely part of it, but ranking how liberal a city is based around homosexual tolerance isn't really useful. You can't even sell street food here without going through some kind of Kafka-esque bureaucratic nightmare worthy of East Germany, so how liberal are we at the end of the day? I remember watching a 20/20 segment on Hong Kong where John Stossel actually set up a business selling 20/20 hats in under a day. That's liberalism. In Toronto you would probably get shutdown by some confluence of NIMBYistic neighborhood associations claiming your restaurant is an affront to moral decency or one of the dozens of bureaucrats who exist to enforce arbitrary standards. The entire strain of Toronto benevolent "we are smarter than you" bureaucracy that has banned everything from Sunday shopping to lane-way housing and private liquor sales is wholly illiberal.

I agree with this. In Ontario at least we seem far too inclined to infringe on choice for some perceived holier-than-thou better 'good'. Get the state out of my damn liquor cabinet! We also love a good witch hunt. I"m so fed up with political correctness. Some people are assholes and say the wrong thing. Deal with it!

 

[Roy G Biv]

I would point out that liberalism is about more than being tolerant of sexual preference. That's definitely part of it, but ranking how liberal a city is based around homosexual tolerance isn't really useful. You can't even sell street food here without going through some kind of Kafka-esque bureaucratic nightmare worthy of East Germany, so how liberal are we at the end of the day? I remember watching a 20/20 segment on Hong Kong where John Stossel actually set up a business selling 20/20 hats in under a day. That's liberalism. In Toronto you would probably get shutdown by some confluence of NIMBYistic neighborhood associations claiming your restaurant is an affront to moral decency or one of the dozens of bureaucrats who exist to enforce arbitrary standards. The entire strain of Toronto benevolent "we are smarter than you" bureaucracy that has banned everything from Sunday shopping to lane-way housing and private liquor sales is wholly illiberal.

Good post. I think you've highlighted something important. Neoliberalism championed individual rights over state rights. In today's lingo, this would translate to libertarianism, where we see a progression towards economic AND social autonomy. Nowadays, when people use the term "liberal", they appear to be invoking only the social side of the coin. Today's liberalism seems to describe a dichotomy of regulated economics and social freedom.

ie. You can have a gay marriage, but only on Tuesday's at a designated marriage-centre. And don't forget the marriage tax. Expect your certificate in 8-10 months.

 

[doady]

I agree with this. In Ontario at least we seem far too inclined to infringe on choice for some perceived holier-than-thou better 'good'. Get the state out of my damn liquor cabinet!

Your liquor cabinet is controlled by the state? Interesting...

 

[Hipster Duck]

Good post. I think you've highlighted something important. Neoliberalism championed individual rights over state rights. In today's lingo, this would translate to libertarianism, where we see a progression towards economic AND social autonomy. Nowadays, when people use the term "liberal", they appear to be invoking only the social side of the coin. Today's liberalism seems to describe a dichotomy of regulated economics and social freedom.

ie. You can have a gay marriage, but only on Tuesday's at a designated marriage-centre. And don't forget the marriage tax. Expect your certificate in 8-10 months.

We should nickname this political ideology of ours "Adam Vaughanism".

 

[Long Island Mike]

Toronto: Definitely more Liberal today!

Everyone: I agree and feel that Toronto has become more Liberal over time.
I will begin comparing to the WASP Conservatism that Toronto once was back in the 50s era on back thinking of the United Empire Loyalist types there.

In the 60s and 70s Toronto changed with high immigration a contributing factor
and it became known as "The People City" and it gradually became a well-known major city - becoming #1 in Canada for its population and its influence.

Today it has become a haven for progressives in Canada and to me that's a good thing...LI MIKE