JasonParis
Moderator
Ironically, where alcohol is most regulated in the US are the more "liberal" states of MA and CA.
Although, many would disagree that the Liberals have ever done much for Ontario, Toronto especially.
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- Thread starter Cooool
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Softee
Active Member
One could argue that the regulation of alcohol is a liberal thing in much the same way that the regulation of smoking in public is considered a liberal practice. For example, places that are drinking and smoking free-for-alls tend to be populated by uneducated (conservative) rednecks.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Most of the alcohol laws on the books in both the U.S. and Canada are decades old. The LCBO still exists less because of moral concern and more because it's a cash cow for the provincial government, and what politician would ever want to change that?
The only real push for further limitations on alcohol these days is tied to drinking-and-driving, which is an absolute concern. Not really sure that's a "liberal" or "conservative" thing, though.
The only real push for further limitations on alcohol these days is tied to drinking-and-driving, which is an absolute concern. Not really sure that's a "liberal" or "conservative" thing, though.
Tewder
Senior Member
Are you talking about 'true' conservatives or conservatives as perceived by extreme lefties who would have you believe that all conservatives are judgemental, racist, uneducated, small-minded, heartless and intolerant white men? Didn't somebody in this thread already basically say as much?
In fact there has been a growing divide among the right in both Canada and the USA with neocons and reformers a little closer to the above profile on the one hand and with more traditional conservatives closer to centre on the other. One clearly has a social agenda where the other doesn't. Makes for uncomfortable bed-fellows.... and remember that a Republican and ostensibly 'conservative' Bush has been one of the bigger government spenders of latter years.
nfitz
Superstar
Please note the use of the capital 'C' and rephrase your reply accordingly.
lordmandeep
Banned
Conservatives you are thinking of believers of "classical Liberalism".
Views of Adam Smith and others.
Many of these Conservatives idealize Presidents like Regan and Ike.
Anyways if you really go in deep...
Every ideology has ten different viewpoints.
Views of Adam Smith and others.
Many of these Conservatives idealize Presidents like Regan and Ike.
Anyways if you really go in deep...
Every ideology has ten different viewpoints.
Tewder
Senior Member
No, I think my question stands: there are small 'c' conservatives that are also Conservatives, no?
kEiThZ
Superstar
To muck it up further, just remember that neo-cons are called neo-liberals elsewhere.
nfitz
Superstar
There are also small 'c' conservatives that are Liberals ... and heck, even I've voted Conservative under more enlightened leaders such as Joe Clark.
Brandon716
Senior Member
Since the question was asked how liberal - with a small "l" - Toronto is relative to cities in America and Montreal in particular, I would say Toronto is among the most liberal around. I don't know enough about Montreal to speak, but at least Toronto is in good company with such a grand city to its east.
San Francisco is the bastion of liberalism in America for our larger cities. Both New York and Chicago have a large number of Democrats and Chicago still has an active Democratic machine, but that's just the political leaders. The people are more conservative than many other larger cities around the world.
Toronto is comfortably more liberal than San Francisco in a policy sense. San Franciscans live in a far more conservative country that has a stronger federal government. Because of this, the city's liberal leanings tend to get hit back by the larger system. San Franciscans can't enjoy true universal health coverage even though they are trying it on a local level just in the city boundaries, for example.
Toronto is where the viability of liberal leadership can be practiced in a real sense, hence why its both culturally liberal and can deliver those liberal politics through policy as opposed to dreaming about it as they do in San Francisco.
New York? As great and grand as the city is, it has a strong conservative community with many conservative institutions. Many so-called New York liberals are actually libertarians who love Wall Street in the day, but love their seedy nightlife after hours and want to protect it. At the end of the day, those types could care less if the guy down the street has health care.
So if you take the liberal definition in a holistic sense, Toronto is among the top liberal centres of North America, above New York or Chicago by far.
San Francisco is the bastion of liberalism in America for our larger cities. Both New York and Chicago have a large number of Democrats and Chicago still has an active Democratic machine, but that's just the political leaders. The people are more conservative than many other larger cities around the world.
Toronto is comfortably more liberal than San Francisco in a policy sense. San Franciscans live in a far more conservative country that has a stronger federal government. Because of this, the city's liberal leanings tend to get hit back by the larger system. San Franciscans can't enjoy true universal health coverage even though they are trying it on a local level just in the city boundaries, for example.
Toronto is where the viability of liberal leadership can be practiced in a real sense, hence why its both culturally liberal and can deliver those liberal politics through policy as opposed to dreaming about it as they do in San Francisco.
New York? As great and grand as the city is, it has a strong conservative community with many conservative institutions. Many so-called New York liberals are actually libertarians who love Wall Street in the day, but love their seedy nightlife after hours and want to protect it. At the end of the day, those types could care less if the guy down the street has health care.
So if you take the liberal definition in a holistic sense, Toronto is among the top liberal centres of North America, above New York or Chicago by far.
S
Seymour
Guest
Toronto is more liberal than all if not most Canadian cities based on population #'s alone.
kettal
Banned
King of Kensington
Senior Member
I would add Boston, Washington DC and Seattle to the liberal US cities list.
Canada is certainly a far more "liberal" country than the US. But if we're talking about the general attitude/sentiment of the people it's a little unfair to say San Francisco is more conservative because they don't have universal healthcare and gay marriage in the US. Still Toronto is right up there in terms of liberalism.
Also since cities have quite different boundaries are we talking city propers only or metropolitan areas?
Canada is certainly a far more "liberal" country than the US. But if we're talking about the general attitude/sentiment of the people it's a little unfair to say San Francisco is more conservative because they don't have universal healthcare and gay marriage in the US. Still Toronto is right up there in terms of liberalism.
Also since cities have quite different boundaries are we talking city propers only or metropolitan areas?
King of Kensington
Senior Member
The Toronto equivalent of these Chicago machine Democrats are people like Tony Ruprecht and Dennis Mills.
hbl33
Active Member
Toronto's liberalism (my point of view, so no criticism thx)
San Fran > Seattle/Portland/Vancouver > NYC = Toronto > Beantown (Boston) > Austin > Chicago > ... > ATL > Dallas/Houston > Salt Lake City (I just added it because of the Mormon "capital") > PHX (most suburban-minded).
San Fran > Seattle/Portland/Vancouver > NYC = Toronto > Beantown (Boston) > Austin > Chicago > ... > ATL > Dallas/Houston > Salt Lake City (I just added it because of the Mormon "capital") > PHX (most suburban-minded).
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