[kEiThZ]

It's easy to laugh at Alberta. But when their oil boom ends, equalization is going to be a major problem in this country. We really need to start talking about that. It's one of the many issues of a just transition that gets ignored because everyone is focused on the Kenney comedy show.

 

[Northern Light]

Well, I for one am not against Federal government ownership of an asset of national importance.

AoD

That's fine, but how about letting Kinder Morgan sink first, then picking up the asset at 50c on the dollar?

We paid full price to an American company that was having its financial challenges.

We over paid.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That's fine, but how about letting Kinder Morgan sink first, then picking up the asset at 50c on the dollar?

We paid full price to an American company that was having its financial challenges.

We over paid.

For control of a pipeline with strategic national unity implications? Priceless. Just hope future federal governments don't do anything stupid selling it to other parties without such concerns.

AoD

 

[SunriseChampion]

For control of a pipeline with strategic national unity implications?

Energy East?

 

[SunriseChampion]

That's fine, but how about letting Kinder Morgan sink first, then picking up the asset at 50c on the dollar?

We paid full price to an American company that was having its financial challenges.

We over paid.

Nationalisation and financial considerations aren't exactly friends.

Remember owning GM and selling at a loss?....presumably said loss was covered by the handful of jobs that were saved and the taxes they paid.


We over paid for a depreciating asset. Like taking on debt to buy a car.

 

[Northern Light]

Nationalisation and financial considerations aren't exactly friends.

Remember owning GM and selling at a loss?....presumably said loss was covered by the handful of jobs that were saved and the taxes they paid.


We over paid for a depreciating asset. Like taking on debt to buy a car.

Nationalization can be done well.

Hydro Quebec has worked out well for Quebec.

Norway's state oil company has produced dividends for that country several times over.

Toronto's own Green P has been a highly profitable enterprise, even if it has had a tendency to under-charge for parking.

We just have a bad experience in this country in more recent decades of mangling the idea.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Nationalization can be done well.

Hydro Quebec has worked out well for Quebec.

Norway's state oil company has produced dividends for that country several times over.

Toronto's own Green P has been a highly profitable enterprise, even if it has had a tendency to under-charge for parking.

We just have a bad experience in this country in more recent decades of mangling the idea.

Were any of those 3 nationalisations of private enterprise? Or were they all just SOEs from the get-go?

I wish the government would nationalise my debts and rent payments. It's a good deal....keep me contributing more to the economy and paying sales taxes eh!

 

[Northern Light]

Were any of those 3 nationalisations of private enterprise? Or were they all just SOEs from the get-go?

I wish the government would nationalise my debts and rent payments. It's a good deal....keep me contributing more to the economy and paying sales taxes eh!

The history of electricity in Québec began in the late 19th century. Originally the domain of numerous private companies, it took a new direction with their subsequent nationalization.

In 1944 and 1963, the Québec government bought out the private companies and merged them into a government corporation, Hydro-Québec. Since then, the company’s technological innovations have earned Québec a worldwide reputation. Economist, journalist, and expert on the history of electricity in Québec and former editor-in-chief of FORCES magazine from 1984 to 1991, André Bolduc presents the key milestones along this journey.

From: http://www.hydroquebec.com/history-electricity-in-quebec/timeline/

For clarification, there were 2 distinct nationalizations in the assembly of Hydro Quebec.

*****

As to Norway, that company started life as a State-owned effort, but also moved on to acquire previously privately owned businesses, notably in the gas station segment.

Equinor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

*****

Green P (The Toronto Parking Authority) dates to 1952; to my understanding they have not acquired working businesses to operate; but have acquired much property.

 

[afransen]

On the subject of diversification, Alberta has a lot of the tools so to speak to embrace a 1/2 dozen major sectors.

It can be at the forefront of energy (oil/gas/wind/solar); it can be a large player in Agriculture, particularly, Wheat and Beef, It can have a significant tourism sector, anchored by Banff/Jasper with hiking, white water rafting, skiing etc., and can also play in other sectors made possible by a relatively well educated, urban, diverse population.

Its not so much out of balance because those other things don't exist or require vast sums of public money, but rather because of over-emphasis and gratuitous money poured into the Oil Sands.

I'd agree. Alberta has good on-shore wind resources. They may actually have a decent combination of wind+solar to have a decent renewable energy chemical industry (synthesis from renewable hydrogen feedstock), as per an OECD report I looked through a while back..

 

[afransen]

Nationalization can be done well.

Hydro Quebec has worked out well for Quebec.

Norway's state oil company has produced dividends for that country several times over.

Toronto's own Green P has been a highly profitable enterprise, even if it has had a tendency to under-charge for parking.

We just have a bad experience in this country in more recent decades of mangling the idea.

CPPIB (a kind of nationalization) has worked out quite well. I would actually be quite supportive of the federal government contributing to a sovereign wealth fund managed like the CPPIB as a strategic asset financed by government debt. That was more so before we ran a $300B deficit this year, but it could still be done. The requirement being that it is equally firewalled as CPPIB from political meddling in its investing mandate. CPPIB's 10 year investment return was 10.5%, earning $273B in returns and making up more than half of the fund's $456B value. And because Canada is a relatively small part of the global economy, we can have substantial public assets without suffering the ills of public ownership dulling management effectiveness.

ETA: Norway built a sovereign wealth fund on the back of its oil and gas resource endowment. Canada is presently blessed with near-zero long term interest rates... that is a kind of resource that can be exploited as well!

 

[lenaitch]

I'd agree. Alberta has good on-shore wind resources.

I get what you meant but I don't think "on shore" is the correct term, unless I missed the news that the 'big one' sent BC drifting off into the Pacific.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Energy East?

I’d say Energy East to Lake Ontario is about as east as you’ll get. But the tankers going to Thunder Bay would need to the small and light, needing oil to be transferred to larger ships once at the ocean. That or go northward to Churchill.

 

[kEiThZ]

I'd agree. Alberta has good on-shore wind resources. They may actually have a decent combination of wind+solar to have a decent renewable energy chemical industry (synthesis from renewable hydrogen feedstock), as per an OECD report I looked through a while back..

What wind energy won't provide is the kind of serious economic gains that oil does. That is the problem for Alberta. They are actually building quite a bit of wind and solar out there. Hydrogen can actually provide at least somewhat of a boost if they get around to developing it before everybody else does. Blue hydrogen from natural gas with carbon capture would actually do reasonably well. Especially as a seasonal primary energy source. It would at least buy them more time. Because right now I fear that AB could start seeing falling oil revenues inside a decade. If we haven't already had peak oil.

 

[Admiral Beez]

What wind energy won't provide is the kind of serious economic gains that oil does. That is the problem for Alberta.

The eventual pipeline expansion to the Pacific will help, but Alberta is going to have to return to its pre-petroleum roots in agriculture, forestry and mining whilst expanding its finance and information tech. Petroleum, especially natural gas will continue to play a role, but even the Saudis and Emiratis have come to the realization that the best days of the oil market are over and not coming back. Tar sands are not the future for Alberta. Start with a PST you dummies.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Because the best place to build the battery factories is beside the car plants that will use them.

Then I wonder what VW is up to?

Volkswagen commits to considering Canada for its first North American EV battery factory

Volkswagen will explore sites in Canada to build the company’s first battery factory in North America to power electric vehicles. Read more.

financialpost.com

Paywall free version: https://archive.ph/PxM0v