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Related, got this from Matlow's newsletter:


I'll be honest, Midtown was largely devoid of some of the issues downtown until these shelters opened up. I feel obligated to defend them from NIMBYs because I am aware of the science and best practices, and that it helps the city overall to spread some of the burden (and these vacant properties are ideal), but I can't deny the various anecdotes I've heard from neighbours and experienced myself.
I wonder why shelters and facilities like this can’t be opened in rural Ontario? It really does not make sense to me to open these in middle of neighborhoods where families and kids are being encouraged to move in
 
I wonder why shelters and facilities like this can’t be opened in rural Ontario? It really does not make sense to me to open these in middle of neighborhoods where families and kids are being encouraged to move in
Following this rationale shelters would all be moved to distant islands where they would be 'out of sight, out of mind'. People who use shelters (yes, they are real people) need access to services like doctors, hospitals, addiction support etc etc These are services that tend to be found downtown and adjacent to or in 'neighbourhoods'.

That said, I am not a supporter of the current system where what used to be short-term 'shelters' have become 'permanent" homes for many people; the City has done great work to move people into apartments but they have more to do (which certainly ought to be funded by both Ottawa and Queen's Park). There should also be both temporary shelters and more permanent subsidised housing "in the country" as many people using the Toronto Shelter System move to Toronto at least partly because our services (inadequate though they are) are better than those where they come from.
 
If you think this is bad....google Dundas and Sherbourne and check what comes up....
I really feel something needs to be done to save this city

Seriously. That area has been bad for decades, but it seems to be getting even worse, despite all the giant condos going up within a stone's throw. Lately, whenever I'm driving west through downtown I actually take a detour just to avoid that intersection. Same with Queen and Sherbourne. Just don't want to deal with the potential hassle.
 
Moving shelters to rural areas is not so that they would be out of sight and out of mind...it could actually do the residents are lot of good....in fact a lot of high end retirement residences are in rural areas...it could actually help the government service more vulnerable people...and may also create jobs and opportunities in those areas

If you're just offering shelter in a rural area than yeah, it's really just because you want them out of sight, out of mind. There should also be services provided to help them with mental and drug addiction issues. Basically, rehab.

However, whether it's just a shelter or rehab, you can't force them to stay there. If they don't like it they're going to leave and head back to the city.
 
So, what's the proposal here? Rural, as in small towns and cities, that might already have a shelter, or not? That way, they could "harass" folks on other streets. Rural, as in a building in an open field along a dirt road, perhaps nowhere near medical and other supports? How about an ice floe?
 
So, what's the proposal here? Rural, as in small towns and cities, that might already have a shelter, or not? That way, they could "harass" folks on other streets. Rural, as in a building in an open field along a dirt road, perhaps nowhere near medical and other supports? How about an ice floe?

Basically, what's been suggested here is tantamount to throwing someone in jail (for harassment) without wanting to pay the cost of incarcerating someone.

AoD
 
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Seriously. That area has been bad for decades, but it seems to be getting even worse, despite all the giant condos going up within a stone's throw. Lately, whenever I'm driving west through downtown I actually take a detour just to avoid that intersection. Same with Queen and Sherbourne. Just don't want to deal with the potential hassle.

I walk or run thought both regularly. There is no actual hassle to deal with, let alone potential.
 
Not really...no one would be forced to go there and the cost could be covered by taxpayers...and it could have all the required services that are currently provided in downtown Toronto...

Of course no one should be forced to go anywhere....all I am asking for is to not be harassed when I am walking in the street...actually on second thoughts...maybe they should be forced into rural shelters if they harass pepole on the streets!

I rest my case.

AoD
 
Which has been a disaster.

From what I understand, even if facilities like CAMH had an abundance of space for these individuals, it would be very difficult to have them committed there and even more so to have them committed there for long. Whether that should be changed becomes a discussion of the common good vs individual rights.

I live downtown next to the core and I feel something needs to be done but I recognize it's not easy to come up with a solution that doesn't open up a Pandora's box of other problems. At the very least it should be a top agenda item for the various levels of government.
 
From what I understand, even if facilities like CAMH had an abundance of space for these individuals, it would be very difficult to have them committed there and even more so to have them committed there for long. Whether that should be changed becomes a discussion of the common good vs individual rights.

I live downtown next to the core and I feel something needs to be done but I recognize it's not easy to come up with a solution that doesn't open up a Pandora's box of other problems. At the very least it should be a top agenda item for the various levels of government.

At the very least you need to house these individuals properly - leaving them on the street will basically ensure no other intervention will stick.

AoD
 
And rehabilitate them so that they are doing something meaningful in their lives rather than loitering on the streets

Understand that not everyone can be rehabilitated - yes - I consider it a waste not to have as many people as possible exercise their full potential as a person. You shouldn't be doing this merely to solve loitering - you should be doing this because it is the right thing to do, of which reduction of loitering is one beneficial side effect.

AoD
 

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