kcantor
Senior Member
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Well we do have a funicular and they don’t….
Well we do have a funicular and they don’t….
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- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
Habibfazil
Active Member
The city hasn't finished bulldozing the quarters yet, not too much left to go...
A new tower with roof top viewing area along the north side of jasper might be a good view, but getting there could be an issue to some (I walk thru the area a couple times a week), but would they pay good money...
Sigh, Jasper avenue still hasn't recovered since the original LRT construction, and the businesses have moved north, almost by design some would say...
Out of Towner
Active Member
The Calgary Tower was completed in 1968 at a cost of $3.5M and Calgary has gotten a lot of mileage for that $3.5M investment. $3.5M in 2024 dollars is about $36M so in terms of cost it's a capital project that's not that far fetched for the City of Edmonton. Or why couldn't the City do a public/private partnership on a tower and link it with tax incentives for a couple of nice modern mid rise apartments/townhouses on 96th. It's a shame to have the investment on 96th wasting away because nobody wants to be the first to take a chance there. The City's low cost eclectic vision hasn't worked there so change the area's name from Boyle to something appealing, and market it similar to Yaletown in Vancouver. Rogers is right there, the art gallery, Citadel, Winspear, the museum, shopping, restaurants, parks - add a tower and the area should go. If it doesn't, then nothing is going to work.
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Habibfazil
Active Member
Most of those names are west of "the quarters", and the scorched earth/parking lot concept is not exactly attracting anything as of late.
There was a new hotel, but that's about it, and it doesn't look like it's turning away business.
The new tram line runs right thru the southern part, just north of Jasper (and sadly attracted problems as expected), which would be a perfect fit to a new tower, but there is a safety/comfort factor in that area...
David A
Senior Member
I assume the many parking lots here are fairly well used during the day, so it can't really be that horribly unsafe in this area. So then the real issue is then comfort.
It is mostly an empty and sterile area with nothing to much to attract people (other than maybe questionable people loitering), so I would agree it does not feel like a comfortable area.
It will not be comfortable until something is developed to bring people into the area to live or work and it is hard to attract this because it is not comfortable.
So it is probably not going to be an area where the private sector takes the initiative despite the money spent on infrastructure. It needs to be a public initiative, there really needs to be some affordable housing developed here.
It is mostly an empty and sterile area with nothing to much to attract people (other than maybe questionable people loitering), so I would agree it does not feel like a comfortable area.
It will not be comfortable until something is developed to bring people into the area to live or work and it is hard to attract this because it is not comfortable.
So it is probably not going to be an area where the private sector takes the initiative despite the money spent on infrastructure. It needs to be a public initiative, there really needs to be some affordable housing developed here.
Coprolite
Active Member
I see that you're not especially familiar with the core.
Coprolite
Active Member
Parking runs 50-75% during the day. Most parkers are office hours, so it gets pretty empty after 1830.
Out of Towner
Active Member
The absence of any development along 96th Street demonstrates that low cost affordable housing was incorrect public policy and the City should pivot and assist the private sector in developing an upscale urban neighborhood in its place. The mistake made by city planers was failing to upgrading 101A Avenue at the same time that 96 Street was done. If budgetary realities prevented both streets from being redone, 101A would have been preferable as it would also have made a development along Jasper Avenue more desirable and de-risked projects north of Jasper Avenue. It's difficult to imagine a developer choosing to do something on the north end of 96th Street before the south end is developed. It wasn't that long ago that 97th Street was a disaster area but if you look at it today, its streetscape is much improved and it has become a very good street. If that kind of development can be extended street by street into Boyle, the area can become a desirable part of the city too. Chances are however, there are people in the planning department that have entrenched positions on low cost housing in Boyle and rather than switching horses, they'll ride their horse over the the falls to protect the reputational damage that would occur by switching horses.
kcantor
Senior Member
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96th street isn't a functional street. You can’t drive from Jasper Avenue to 103a Avenue and you can’t drive from 103a Avenue to Jasper Avenue. Neither can your taxi or your Uber driver..,
96th street isn't a functional street. You can’t drive from Jasper Avenue to 103a Avenue and you can’t drive from 103a Avenue to Jasper Avenue. Neither can your taxi or your Uber driver..,
Coprolite
Active Member
Which, given 97 and 95 streets, and 102A Ave, 103a and Jasper Ave, it doesn't really need to do.
kcantor
Senior Member
You do know you can’t get from 95 Street to 97 Street on 103 Avenue nor can you get from 102a Avenue to Jasper Avenue or 103a Venue without leaving the Quarters and circling around? 101a Avenue is no real help either.
I know some of this is partly a result of the oblique angle that Jasper Avenue takes through here but the LRT at grade and the treatment of the Armature only exacerbate the problem imposed by Canada Place, the Courthouse, and Sir Winston Churchill Square on the lack of intuitive circulation in the area.
Coprolite
Active Member
Only if I'm in a car, and then I have to divert a truly negligible distance.
I've lived in the neighbourhood since 2018. I can't emphasize enough how trivial the supposed inconvenience is, and how it's actually nice that it's not a major cut through for cars.
kcantor
Senior Member
It’s only trivial because of the preponderance of empty lots and empty buildings.
And trivializing things that are a problem simply because they don’t inconvenience you at the moment is not a solution.
And, for what it’s worth, I live within a stone’s throw of the area and have been actively involved in the area since 1998 and frequented the area as far back as 1976. It’s decline continues to be heartbreaking.
Out of Towner
Active Member
The Armature is a dream location for an upscale residential development as it's a very well done streetscape within walking distance of many of the amenities that higher income people enjoy. It's the City's commitment to low income housing for the area that's hindered development. No developer is going to risk building $750K townhomes in the area when there's the possibility of a low income walk-up with vinyl siding going up next door.
The East Village in Calgary was once an area of semi neglected small commercial building similar to the ones found in Boyle. The City of Calgary began redeveloping the area about the same time that the City of Edmonton began the Quarters redevelopment . The City of Calgary committed to an up scale redevelopment while the City of Edmonton committed to low income development. Today the East Village in Calgary boasts half a dozen up scale high rise apartment building while the City of Edmonton is watching its investment in the Quarters wither away.
Photo ops of city representatives beating on drums and smoking a peace pipe with the few elders who still live in Boyle looked good but if low income development was going to work in Boyle it would have already begun. The hotels that were once a hub of activity in the area (say what you will) are gone and so is much of the demographic that frequented those hotels. The area by and large is uninhabited and the demographic which city planers believed would support 118th Avenue style store fronts in Boyle just isn't there any longer.
Low income housing is still needed in the city but it's more suited to the north side of Grant MacEwan so that students or single parents that still want to pursue their education can have reasonably priced accommodation.
There's not much reason why Boyle (change the name to something appealing already) can't be reimagined and made into an appealing neighborhood as Calgary has done in the East Village. And Calgary is far from the only city that's turned a blighted area into something desirable. Gastown in Vancouver was once very rough and now it's a popular tourist destination. Edmonton council just needs to abandon its stubborn adherence to a concept that didn't work and give people the kind of development that they want. .
(PS: East Village in Calgary has a couple of non thoroughfare cobblestone roads. Not sure what cyclists think about them but they look pretty good).
The East Village in Calgary was once an area of semi neglected small commercial building similar to the ones found in Boyle. The City of Calgary began redeveloping the area about the same time that the City of Edmonton began the Quarters redevelopment . The City of Calgary committed to an up scale redevelopment while the City of Edmonton committed to low income development. Today the East Village in Calgary boasts half a dozen up scale high rise apartment building while the City of Edmonton is watching its investment in the Quarters wither away.
Photo ops of city representatives beating on drums and smoking a peace pipe with the few elders who still live in Boyle looked good but if low income development was going to work in Boyle it would have already begun. The hotels that were once a hub of activity in the area (say what you will) are gone and so is much of the demographic that frequented those hotels. The area by and large is uninhabited and the demographic which city planers believed would support 118th Avenue style store fronts in Boyle just isn't there any longer.
Low income housing is still needed in the city but it's more suited to the north side of Grant MacEwan so that students or single parents that still want to pursue their education can have reasonably priced accommodation.
There's not much reason why Boyle (change the name to something appealing already) can't be reimagined and made into an appealing neighborhood as Calgary has done in the East Village. And Calgary is far from the only city that's turned a blighted area into something desirable. Gastown in Vancouver was once very rough and now it's a popular tourist destination. Edmonton council just needs to abandon its stubborn adherence to a concept that didn't work and give people the kind of development that they want. .
(PS: East Village in Calgary has a couple of non thoroughfare cobblestone roads. Not sure what cyclists think about them but they look pretty good).
trevorhayden
Active Member
As seen in any city, if amiskwaciwâskahikan wants to turn the original Chinatown into a successful neighbourhood, it must stop waiting for profiting developers to show up and spend its own money to build it out as it imagines, wants, and frankly needs.