David A
Senior Member
Our city councils are generally remarkably consistent. Decades of getting businesses to locate elsewhere and we wonder why our downtown is in the state it is.
A lot of the blame goes to the city politicians.
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- Thread starter Daveography
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A lot of the blame goes to the city politicians.
Out of Towner
Active Member
The CN Tower in Toronto reportedly cost $63M to build in 1976 or $318M in 2023 dollars and attracts 1.8 million people per year. The Alberta government is contributing $330M in funding towards Calgary's new arena district. Not a lot of difference in dollar terms.
Edmonton should use the provincial funds it has been promised by the Provincial government for a legacy project as well. There is some prime real estate on the east side of the convention center and a tower could be enough to kick start development in that area of the city. As others have noted on a different thread, the City has already made a significant investment in the Armature which hasn't worked out to date very likely because of Boyle's perception. A tower would go a long way to changing the area's perception and recouping the investment the City made in the area.
Edmonton should use the provincial funds it has been promised by the Provincial government for a legacy project as well. There is some prime real estate on the east side of the convention center and a tower could be enough to kick start development in that area of the city. As others have noted on a different thread, the City has already made a significant investment in the Armature which hasn't worked out to date very likely because of Boyle's perception. A tower would go a long way to changing the area's perception and recouping the investment the City made in the area.
kcantor
Senior Member
Comparing an arena to a tower is like comparing apples to oranges…
You might visit the CN Tower while you’re in Toronto but my guess is almost nobody goes to Toronto simply to take an elevator to the top of the CN Tower.
1.8 million seems like a big number but it’s less than 5,000 a day and it’s literally beside the convention centre and the stadium and the aquarium and a 10 minute walk from the arena and the CNE grounds and scores of hotels.
There’s a big difference between something you visit while you’re there and something you go there to visit.
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David A
Senior Member
I agree a tower would probably be way beyond the scope of the provincial funding. However, I do feel there is an underlying problem in that we have paid little attention in developing more things to draw visitors downtown.
Yes, people don't go to Toronto only to see the CN Tower, but it is one of many things there to visit. Here attracting tourists and providing more for them to do seems like an after thought which is partly why we have sometimes in the past got such terrible reviews in tourist guides. A reflexive no to such an interesting idea is such a typical Edmonton response. Really we can do better.
kcantor
Senior Member
^
Well we do have a funicular and they don’t….
Well we do have a funicular and they don’t….
Habibfazil
Active Member
The city hasn't finished bulldozing the quarters yet, not too much left to go...
A new tower with roof top viewing area along the north side of jasper might be a good view, but getting there could be an issue to some (I walk thru the area a couple times a week), but would they pay good money...
Sigh, Jasper avenue still hasn't recovered since the original LRT construction, and the businesses have moved north, almost by design some would say...
Out of Towner
Active Member
The Calgary Tower was completed in 1968 at a cost of $3.5M and Calgary has gotten a lot of mileage for that $3.5M investment. $3.5M in 2024 dollars is about $36M so in terms of cost it's a capital project that's not that far fetched for the City of Edmonton. Or why couldn't the City do a public/private partnership on a tower and link it with tax incentives for a couple of nice modern mid rise apartments/townhouses on 96th. It's a shame to have the investment on 96th wasting away because nobody wants to be the first to take a chance there. The City's low cost eclectic vision hasn't worked there so change the area's name from Boyle to something appealing, and market it similar to Yaletown in Vancouver. Rogers is right there, the art gallery, Citadel, Winspear, the museum, shopping, restaurants, parks - add a tower and the area should go. If it doesn't, then nothing is going to work.
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Habibfazil
Active Member
Most of those names are west of "the quarters", and the scorched earth/parking lot concept is not exactly attracting anything as of late.
There was a new hotel, but that's about it, and it doesn't look like it's turning away business.
The new tram line runs right thru the southern part, just north of Jasper (and sadly attracted problems as expected), which would be a perfect fit to a new tower, but there is a safety/comfort factor in that area...
David A
Senior Member
I assume the many parking lots here are fairly well used during the day, so it can't really be that horribly unsafe in this area. So then the real issue is then comfort.
It is mostly an empty and sterile area with nothing to much to attract people (other than maybe questionable people loitering), so I would agree it does not feel like a comfortable area.
It will not be comfortable until something is developed to bring people into the area to live or work and it is hard to attract this because it is not comfortable.
So it is probably not going to be an area where the private sector takes the initiative despite the money spent on infrastructure. It needs to be a public initiative, there really needs to be some affordable housing developed here.
It is mostly an empty and sterile area with nothing to much to attract people (other than maybe questionable people loitering), so I would agree it does not feel like a comfortable area.
It will not be comfortable until something is developed to bring people into the area to live or work and it is hard to attract this because it is not comfortable.
So it is probably not going to be an area where the private sector takes the initiative despite the money spent on infrastructure. It needs to be a public initiative, there really needs to be some affordable housing developed here.
Coprolite
Active Member
I see that you're not especially familiar with the core.
Coprolite
Active Member
Parking runs 50-75% during the day. Most parkers are office hours, so it gets pretty empty after 1830.
Out of Towner
Active Member
The absence of any development along 96th Street demonstrates that low cost affordable housing was incorrect public policy and the City should pivot and assist the private sector in developing an upscale urban neighborhood in its place. The mistake made by city planers was failing to upgrading 101A Avenue at the same time that 96 Street was done. If budgetary realities prevented both streets from being redone, 101A would have been preferable as it would also have made a development along Jasper Avenue more desirable and de-risked projects north of Jasper Avenue. It's difficult to imagine a developer choosing to do something on the north end of 96th Street before the south end is developed. It wasn't that long ago that 97th Street was a disaster area but if you look at it today, its streetscape is much improved and it has become a very good street. If that kind of development can be extended street by street into Boyle, the area can become a desirable part of the city too. Chances are however, there are people in the planning department that have entrenched positions on low cost housing in Boyle and rather than switching horses, they'll ride their horse over the the falls to protect the reputational damage that would occur by switching horses.
kcantor
Senior Member
^
96th street isn't a functional street. You can’t drive from Jasper Avenue to 103a Avenue and you can’t drive from 103a Avenue to Jasper Avenue. Neither can your taxi or your Uber driver..,
96th street isn't a functional street. You can’t drive from Jasper Avenue to 103a Avenue and you can’t drive from 103a Avenue to Jasper Avenue. Neither can your taxi or your Uber driver..,
Coprolite
Active Member
Which, given 97 and 95 streets, and 102A Ave, 103a and Jasper Ave, it doesn't really need to do.
kcantor
Senior Member
You do know you can’t get from 95 Street to 97 Street on 103 Avenue nor can you get from 102a Avenue to Jasper Avenue or 103a Venue without leaving the Quarters and circling around? 101a Avenue is no real help either.
I know some of this is partly a result of the oblique angle that Jasper Avenue takes through here but the LRT at grade and the treatment of the Armature only exacerbate the problem imposed by Canada Place, the Courthouse, and Sir Winston Churchill Square on the lack of intuitive circulation in the area.