[W. K. Lis]

Melbourne's Bourke Street Mall has no problem with emergency vehicles: (even after a terrorist attack)

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/b...llards-installed-in-mall-20171119-gzojb6.html

But of course, this isn't Toronto, incapable of learning from others...

Toronto would probably install Bullard instead of bollards.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I would be surprised if 6 full-time officers were unable to provide the bulk of their own salaries as derived from ticket revenue.

A team of 6 would allow 2 to be on location 7 days a week during operating hours.

Why, it would be just as easy to install videos cameras - plus it has a 100% capture rate. Heck, it wouldn't even be that hard to have the system capturing intersection traffic at multiple angles - I am sure it will also come in handy when insurance companies comes knocking as well.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

Why, it would be just as easy to install videos cameras - plus it has a 100% capture rate. Heck, it wouldn't even be that hard to have the system capturing intersection traffic at multiple angles - I am sure it will also come in handy when insurance companies comes knocking as well.

AoD

as discussed earlier, though, 6 full time officers does not need any permissions from QP...like using video cameras for this purpose would.

 

[steveintoronto]

Why, it would be just as easy to install videos cameras - plus it has a 100% capture rate. Heck, it wouldn't even be that hard to have the system capturing intersection traffic at multiple angles - I am sure it will also come in handy when insurance companies comes knocking as well.

AoD

Not video, not prescribed under the HTA, but Red Light Cameras. 35m adapted still cameras. At $100,000 per intersection (City's own figure), they'd work 24/7, and for say 10 intersections, cost $1M.

Contrast that to 8 cops costing (for the sake of argument with support and cost of equipment) $100/hr X 8 X 24 X 365 = $7M a year.

Any excuse that the cost of Red Light Cameras is too much for a project that may only last another 11 months is completely swamped by the *enduring* addition to King Street and intersection safety for the long term, no matter the outcome.

As today's Star article indicates, King St. pilot project has slashed streetcar travel times, statistics show , there's every reason to believe this has massive potential to be a huge success.

Surely...surely Shirley, the City can find $1M to install Red Light Cameras
36:2 Bill 20, Red Light Camera Act, 1998

to guarantee not only the success shown so far, but as an investment in future success and improvement. This scheme deserves a hell of a lot more than the pittance the City is begrudgingly is granting. Priority signals *still* haven't been established for streetcars...WTF?

I'd also urge the TTC to continue adding streetcars from other routes, even if short-turned 504, (Roncy to Cherry, for instance) to prove the worth of this project further. Buses would have to be used on some other streetcar routes to make up the shortfall, so be it.

Red light cameras

In December 1998, the provincial government enacted Bill 102, red Light Cameras Pilot Projects Act 1998, to allow designated municipalities to use red light cameras for up to two years. In 2002, the Government of Ontario extended the legislation for an additional two years. In August 2004, the legislation was made permanent.

Red light cameras and public awareness can modify driving behaviour. Red light cameras have reduced the frequency of red light running in the City of Toronto. Violation occurs when a motorist enters an intersection after the signal light has turned red.

Red light cameras do not replace police officers. The red light cameras are being used to complement police efforts in preventing motorists from running a red light.

Cost of a red light cameraA red light camera costs about $100,000.


Size of red light camerasThe camera is an industrial 35-mm camera, manufactured particularly for unattended operation in an outdoor environment. The cameras are housed in a metre x metre x metre enclosure and are mounted on a pole.


Intersections in the City having red light camerasA list of the intersections where red light cameras have been installed is available on the City of Toronto website.


LocationThe location of a red light camera is 20 metres in advance of the intersection. They are mounted approximately 3.6 metres above the ground. of red light camera location relative to the intersection


Do red light cameras photograph every vehicle passing through an intersection?No. Photographs are only taken when a vehicle enters an intersection after the traffic signal turns red.


I noticed a red light camera flashing rapidly while the traffic signal was green or amber at an intersection. It appears to be malfunctioning.
Red light cameras are activated several times in secession when they are serviced. The traffic signal indication may be green, amber or red during the servicing procedure. This is a normal maintenance activity and not a malfunction.

Is red light running is a problem in the City of Toronto?Red light running is one of several aggressive driving behaviours that contribute to the annual toll of collisions and injuries at intersections in Ontario.


Do red light cameras violate privacy?In consultation with the Privacy Commissioner, every attempt has been made to minimize capturing members of the public in the photos. In the event that members of the public are inadvertently captured on film, it will not be possible to identify them from the photos included on the tickets.




Use of red light cameras in other countriesPhotographic detection devices are used extensively in many other countries including Australia, Austria, Belgium, Germany, Israel, the Netherlands, Singapore, South Africa, Switzerland, Taiwan, the United Kingdom and the United States. Cameras are also used in British Columbia, Alberta and Manitoba.


Does the City of Toronto provide violation information to the Province or Insurance companies?The City of Toronto does not provide any information to the Province of Ontario or any Insurance companies.


Request for Red Light camera information or recordingsRequest for any information regarding Red Light Cameras, including images/recordings or general information must be submitted by email to the Supervisor of the Red light camera operations. Emails must include contact information and all pertinent details. Requests for camera recordings you must also include the date and time of the accident and description of the vehicles involved. Please note, an email request must be submitted before any information will be provided.

Information about Red Light Cameras is also available on the Citywebsite.

https://www.toronto.ca/311/knowledg...al-planning-and-policy/red-light-cameras.html

 

[amnesiajune]

Not video, not prescribed under the HTA, but Red Light Cameras. 35m adapted still cameras At $100,000 per intersection (City's own figure), they'd work 24/7, and for say 10 intersections, cost $1M.

Contrast that to cops costing (for the sake of argument with support and cost of equipment) $100/hr X 8 X 24 X 365 = $7M a year.

Any excuse that the cost of Red Light Cameras is too much for a project that may only last another 11 months is completely swamped by the *enduring* addition to King Street and intersection safety for the long term, no matter the outcome.

In Ontario, red light cameras aren't allowed to ticket cars if the light was green or yellow when they went into the intersection. They're only allowed to enforce s. 144(18) of the Highway Traffic Act. "Failure to clear" is a municipal by-law offence (Chapter 950-901) so there has to be an officer physically there to enforce it.

 

[steveintoronto]

In Ontario, red light cameras aren't allowed to ticket cars if the light was green or yellow when they went into the intersection. They're only allowed to enforce s. 144(18) of the Highway Traffic Act. "Failure to clear" is a municipal by-law offence (Chapter 950-901) so there has to be an officer physically there to enforce it.

I've already posted the HTA section prior a number of times. I suggest reading it. The *vehicle* owner is ticketed, but even as a provincial offence, the City gets the bulk of the very high fine. It was discussed in collusion with a permanent red with a transit vertical white bar and posted exceptions.

How many "Failure to Clear" tickets have been issued?

In a city where gridlock is a major political issue, Toronto police rarely hand out tickets to motorists who block busy intersections, CBC News has learned. ... In 2013, police didn't issue a single ticket to a motorist for failing to clear an intersection that has traffic signals.Dec 21, 2015
Toronto police rarely ticket drivers who block intersections in ... - CBC.ca
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-gridlock-tickets-1.3368510

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

as discussed earlier, though, 6 full time officers does not need any permissions from QP...like using video cameras for this purpose would.

QP should just butt out of this. Only fools will tie themselves up with pointless regulations such as these.

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

QP should just butt out of this. Only fools will tie themselves up with pointless regulations such as these.

AoD

Agree with the gist of this instance, but totally disagree with the bigger picture. The HTA is unavoidable in all of this...which then begs the question, where in hell is City Hall in not asking Il Duce for his divine intervention:

Part xvi
pilot projects
Pilot projects
228 (1) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may by regulation authorize or establish a project for research into or the testing or evaluation of any matter governed by this Act or relevant to highway traffic. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

Project may conflict with Acts
(2) Under a project authorized or established under subsection (1),

(a) persons or classes of persons may be authorized to do or use a thing that is prohibited or regulated under this Act, the Dangerous Goods Transportation Act, the Motorized Snow Vehicles Act, the Off-Road Vehicles Act or the Public Vehicles Act or to not do or use a thing that is required or authorizedby any of those Acts;

(b) the Minister or Ministry or any person authorized or required to do anything under this Act, the Dangerous Goods Transportation Act, the Motorized Snow Vehicles Act, the Off-Road Vehicles Act or the Public Vehicles Act may be authorized or required to do anything that is not authorized or required under any of those Acts or to do anything that is authorized or required under any of those Acts in a way that is different from the way it is authorized or required. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33.

Limited to classes
(3) An authorization or requirement described in subsection (2) may be limited to any class of persons, class or type of vehicles, class of equipment, devices or highways, parts of Ontario, time of year or day, activities, matters or any other things. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

Regulation to create own scheme of rules
(4) A regulation made under this section may regulate the doing of anything or the use of any thing or prohibit the doing of anything or the using of any thing. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

...continues...
Insurance
(5) A regulation made under this section may require a person or class of persons to carry insurance of a kind and in the amount specified. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

Time limit
(6) A regulation made under this section must provide that it is revoked no later than the twelfth anniversary of the day the regulation is filed. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

Project prevails over Acts
(7) In the event of a conflict between a regulation made under this section and any provision of this Act, the Dangerous Goods Transportation Act, the Motorized Snow Vehicles Act, the Off-Road Vehicles Act or the Public Vehicles Act or of a regulation made under any of those Acts, the regulation made under this section prevails. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33.

Offence
(8) Every person who contravenes a regulation made under this section is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $250 and not more than $2,500. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 33 (1).

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08

The Province has already (evidently) interceded upon request in K/W with the ION project. There is funding support available (IIRC) for such projects and requests as these also.

 

[W. K. Lis]

No, Toronto cannot "think" about improving the traffic signals. Cannot change the "rules" of the road, just because we cannot change. (Shaking head.)

Just like Toronto cannot have red arrow traffic signals, nor the transit signals that the rest of world could use but not here. (Note the lack of long verbage signage to explain what the signals are for.)

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Apparently we can't change them because a good chunk of our drivers couldn't follow them in the first place.

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

Apparently we can't change them because a good chunk of our drivers couldn't follow them in the first place.

AoD

This is a crucial point. As it is, far too many drivers are confused on the QQ...dammit, far too many are confused just doing many of the basics.

There's a very simple place to start on this (besides doing more with the Vertical White Bar now allowed under the HTA) on a single traffic light head if that is not deemed worthy (since it will "confuse TTC operators") (OMG! How bad is Toronto for drivers?) and @reaperexpress is one poster who'd know more on this than others, he's written extensively in various strings on it: Waterloo Region's ION.

City Hall had best get their sorry asses over to Kitchener ("where's that, is it in Etobicoke?"), or better yet, make a phone call (or more likely tweet, that should meet their ability) for help on understanding what dispensation ION received from the Province, and how it can be adapted for Toronto.

But that would be a challenging task for most at City Hall methinks...

If ION already has dispensation from QP, then so can Toronto.

 

[TOareaFan]

Apparently we can't change them because a good chunk of our drivers couldn't follow them in the first place.

AoD

this really is the issue isn't it.......I do think the signage they chose to use is a bit confusing and not the clearest....but we all know what they are doing, it is probably the most publicized and talked about traffic change in the city in my adult life.....yet people are still all "duh, I did not know what to do, what do those signs mean?"

What is the point of looking at better signage if, as you say, a lot of people intend to not follow the rules anyway.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

this really is the issue isn't it.......I do think the signage they chose to use is a bit confusing and not the clearest....but we all know what they are doing, it is probably the most publicized and talked about traffic change in the city in my adult life.....yet people are still all "duh, I did not know what to do, what do those signs mean?"

What is the point of looking at better signage if, as you say, a lot of people intend to not follow the rules anyway.

Clear signage (which is always a laudable goal) removes the excuse that bad signage is the cause of the problem.

AoD

 

[DSC]

Just watching the meeting today on the new patio by-law. Our Georgio is on that Committee and he just said "I am going to be down there [ King Street] to look into the mess with no cars. Don't know what I will do but ..."

 

[blixtex]

The pilot has not improved my commute at all. Might be worse for me.

Don't leave us hanging. What's your commute. How is it impacted?

Are the taxis doing anything most weeknights except going in circles?

It's a valid observation. Sounds like you are in a bit of an edge case - going counter direction from most of the traffic. I'd guess your experience before the trial was pretty much optimal under the circumstances, so not surprised that the new world isn't a benefit.

@TheKingEast, @nfitz, @animatronic I talked to my sister yesterday who lives near Parliament and King, who takes the King Street alot. I asked her eagerly how happy she was with the new pilot project. She mentioned the change in stops as the biggest nuisance. In fact, she said she prefers the old set-up since as the after inter-section set up is bad. The transfer from Yonge Stn is even worse. I forgot which stop but said some stops are now in the middle of the block as opposed to the corner. Crowding at the stops getting worse. Often she just walks it. Once these type of stories start getting more play and feedback, plus bigger vocal from businesses, less enforcement, I predict failure of this project in its current form.

I'll take a more conservative 75,000 per day by 2018.

But from what I hear from people, the King Streetcar is way more crowded since this project begun. One girl even suggesting to me that she is going to start driving because of how uncomfortably crowded it's gotten. I guess everyone has their threshold for what they'll consider acceptable.

A little anecdotal observation: I took the 504 from Spadina to a meeting near Parliament. I got there in about 10 minutes but the streetcar was packed the entire way. On the way back, I took the 501 on Queen to compare. It was a lot longer, almost half an hour stuck in traffic from about Yonge all the way to Spadina. The kicker though: the streetcar was nearly empty at around 3:30pm.

It’s pretty clear that people who took the 501 have migrated to the 504 since it’s like a downtown subway.

This is a good indication that the TTC should be shifting 501 capacity to deal with the new demand on King. Could they not create a new Queen/King hybrid route?

This is a hilarious aspect of this project. The Planners clearly had no idea such a thing would happen where people would crowd to King. Kind of like the "You need much more rocket fuel to carry all that extra rocket fuel". Also, nobody talks about or is studied is where is the extra traffic going? I bet a good portion ends up on Queen Street slowing down traffic on Queen that much more. And seeing questions such as "Why don't they just do this.. or that" will only lead to more of the same questions as the unexpected planning and unknown foresight is what leads to even more discombobulation of the intention (i.e. Street Cars trying to turn right causes even more bunch up in certain areas, etc).

Also, Putting planter boxes on the street like that to try to block traffic is akin to locking your dog in a kennel in your room while you go out as opposed to training your dog to be independent and ok to roam free while you leave the house. It will also cause bunching up of traffic as cars can easily form long lines in that Streetcar lane due to the traffic light, right turn, etc, further causing huge delays.

Really, all this 'tweaking' and 'modding' is like a big comedy skit. And then all those tickets getting handed out, you know people will fight it in court leading to even more backlog, violation of constitutional rights to a speedy trial, etc.