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“Just after” is a full red. You shouldn’t be in the intersection after the light turns red. We should have cameras that give a ticket to any driver who does that.
You are completely missing my point.

Yes, people keep going through the lights after they turn red. That is not my point. And I was clear that wasn't what I was referring to.

You don't tell me why you think that when drivers never have a green light, why they'd run through a red?
 
A further improvement to chows plan, which doesn’t go far enough, is to shut down the driveways that dump cars onto king. The obvious one to start with is the major parking exit just east of York, it has other exits on Wellington; and no entrance. It dumps people onto king who must turn right and then block Bay, or turn left across two tracks, often blocking them. Shut it down from 3pm to 7pm, and reroute everyone onto Wellington…
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If they really want it clear for motorists, they should be using the standard transit signals than normal signals and a sign telling you that it's a transit signal.

If the "standard transit signals" you're referring to include horizontal bar for red (such as the ones on the Waterloo LRT), instead of a red circle, then they are specifically prohibited in HTA Regulation 626.

Red bar in Waterloo
redBar-Waterloo.JPG


It's literally rule number one in the traffic signal regulations:
1. (1) Every traffic control signal shall consist of one circular amber and one circular red indication in combination with,

(a) a circular green indication;

(b) a circular green indication and one or more green arrow indications;

(c) a circular green indication, one or more green arrow indications and one or more amber arrow indications; or

(d) one or more green arrow indications. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 626, s. 1 (1).

The Waterloo signals don't need to conform to the HTA since they're only used by rail vehicles (so they can arguably be controlled under the street railways act rather than the highway traffic act). The King Street signals cannot be exempt because they also need to accommodate buses.

White vertical bars for "green" are allowed in the HTA - in addition to a literal green light per reg.626(1) - but in Toronto a white vertical bar has been defined to mean "left turn and right turn only, no through movement", which is exactly the opposite of what you need for streetcars travelling straight along King Street.

I have already explained this several times in this thread. Here is a post where I linked to several other posts where I explained the HTA and City issues with bar-style transit signals.

You shouldn’t be in the intersection after the light turns red. We should have cameras that give a ticket to any driver who does that.

This is not true. As long as you enter the intersection legally (meaning that you crossed the stop line during green or yellow) you retain the legal right to take whatever time you need to clear the intersection, and all other traffic must yield to you until you have finished clearing. That's also what the red clearance interval is for, which I illustrated at 1:49 in this video:

(15) Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular amber indication and facing the indication shall stop his or her vehicle if he or she can do so safely, otherwise he or she may proceed with caution. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (15)
(8) When under this section a driver is permitted to proceed, he or she shall yield the right of way to traffic lawfully using an intersection or, where traffic control signals are erected where a private road or driveway meets a highway, lawfully using the area controlled by the traffic control signals. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (8); 2006, c. 19, Sched. T, s. 6 (3).

We do have cameras that ticket drivers who violate the red light by entering the intersection after the light has turned red. That's what the City of Toronto's red light cameras do.
 
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While we're in the weeds. Why do we use two transit signals on both sides of the sign?
Due to the standard (exceedingly nitpicky) interpretation of HTA Regulation 626 s.1(4) being that each signal phase requires at least two signal heads. Though standard practice is to not follow this guideline for protected-permissive arrows, using the rationale that if they fail it doesn't prevent people from going through the intersection, it just means that they don't realize that they have priority.

4) Every traffic control signal system that is installed shall have at least two traffic control signals located on the far side of the intersection from which vehicles are approaching, at least one of which shall be located on the far right side. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 626, s. 1 (4).

That rule is intended to require redunancy in case one of the lights burns out, and in case visibility of one signal head is blocked (e.g. by a truck in front of you). That latter case is usually irrelevant for transit signals and bicycle signals, which makes the duplicate signals quite silly in practice. Some jurisdictions (e.g. in Texas and in Alberta) address the electrical reduancy by installing two red lights if there's only one signal head for the phase in case one of them burns out.

It's worth noting that all signals have monitoring systems that detect when lights burn out, and if both of the primary red lights for a given phase are burnt out it will shut down the entire intersection and put it on "flash" (typically flashing red in all directions) until the lights are replaced. This is because you don't want some drivers to see a green light while others have blank signals.
 
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I have a question of interpretation/clarification @reaperexpress

This:

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Could one read this section to suggest it is not legal to enter an intersection on an Amber if already safely stopped?
 

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