adma
Superstar
Also don't forget Autoshare/Zipcar.
|
|
|
- Thread starter bar1967
- Start date
Also don't forget Autoshare/Zipcar.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I'll do what I please, thank you very much. I can't imagine posting such a message of "you should do this...". How about people should do whatever they please. If they build a Wal-Mart and Smart Centre at Leslieville with free parking, I will support it. And, I guarantee you that the parking lot will be full at all times. As you may have noticed, whenever you hear about those communities that protest a planned Wal-Mart, once the WM is built, the parking lots are always packed with local shoppers.
David Miller and his war on cars may want all of us to become ant-like Orwellian automatons, ridding ourselves of cars, and all riding the TTC for some perceived greater good, but he can get stuffed. Miller can charge his ridiculous $60 per vehicle registration tax, but when it costs $60 to fill up your gas tank for week, this Miller tax, while entirely unfair compared to others in the GTA and province, will dissuade very few from selling their vehicles and using the TTC. The worst thing about that Miller tax is that the funds just go to general revenue, meaning that it does nothing to improve the situation or needs of those taxed for vehicle ownership, i.e. personal vehicle owners.
Besides, the TTC is useless or non-economical for many. I work at Hwy 7 and Markham Rd. How am I supposed to get to work without a car? Miller may suggest that I sell my house to some downtown working, TTC riding urbanite, but sorry, it's a free country, I'll live where I like, thank you. Let's look at leisure use of the TTC. Last week during the holidays I took my family to the Toronto Zoo. Taking the TTC there would have cost a mint and taken ages, while parking at the Zoo was free, and the drive was quick. Same goes for our family trip to the ROM. Parking across the street was less than $10, and while a weekend family pass would have been reasonable, it would have still cost about the same as parking.
nstuch
Active Member
another irony is that driving around in the core and neighbourhoods around it (outside of prime rush hour) is very quick and painless and it's usually easy to find street parking or an off peak rate in a lot, even within a couple of blocks of yonge and dundas. Why someone would wait days for something to be delivered, or take a cab, instead of just driving themselves, makes no sense.
If you don't actually own a car then that's another story, I didn't for 4 years, and relying on cabs or delivery is a small price to pay for saving the few hundred dollars a month it takes to run a car.
If you don't actually own a car then that's another story, I didn't for 4 years, and relying on cabs or delivery is a small price to pay for saving the few hundred dollars a month it takes to run a car.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
It's even better if you ride a motorcycle, like I do, since on-street parking is free at all times, and you can use the MOV lanes.
That's true. It makes less sense to own a car in the city of Toronto unless you need it for daily commuting. That said, my mother in law lives in the Beach(es) and though she's retired and still active, she rarely takes the TTC and takes her car instead to the TSO, ROM, AGO and the other threatres without accronyms.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Unless one is going to be buying a television or bedroom set each and every week, having big stores like that is really a waste of real estate. Smaller stores to buy DVD's or clothing or your coffee does not require large parking lots.
Yes, you will still require a parking lot, but only for pick-ups of large items. These small short term lots should be behind the stores near their loading docks, not out front.
Yes, you will still require a parking lot, but only for pick-ups of large items. These small short term lots should be behind the stores near their loading docks, not out front.
nstuch
Active Member
the problem with the mythic ideal of going to the local hardware shop to buy what it is you need is this: I have a small local hardware store in my neighbourhood and i occasionally go there to try and buy something when i think it may stock it. Invariably it doesn't since it is 1/1000th the size of Home Depot. that is why people shop at big box stores.
I also welcome the Smart Centre in Leslieville since it will be more convenient that going to Warden/Eglinton or Eglinton/Laird, and the stupid city, other than opposing the idea, has no better plan for the land other than the fantasy of it generating a bunch of high paying jobs. If there was at least a chance of something other than big box going there ie a plan of some sort, i would oppose the big box, but some jobs are better than none.
I also welcome the Smart Centre in Leslieville since it will be more convenient that going to Warden/Eglinton or Eglinton/Laird, and the stupid city, other than opposing the idea, has no better plan for the land other than the fantasy of it generating a bunch of high paying jobs. If there was at least a chance of something other than big box going there ie a plan of some sort, i would oppose the big box, but some jobs are better than none.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I guarantee you that the parking lot at the proposed Leslieville Smart Centre will be full at all times during store hours. Just look at Laird & Eg for an example. The area is a mid-to-high density community, and the subway is less than 4 km away and several bus routes service the Smart Centre. Still, that parking lot is always jammed.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
There was a plan to build residential and smaller retail on the site, but the city and NIMBYs protested that too.
The market is deciding what should be built there. The city can force the area to only allow film studios or office blocks, but if no one is willing to build it or buy it, it won't get built.
Towered
Senior Member
If they were to put all the parking underground and build on top of it, the way things should be done, then I could grudgingly accept this planned development.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I'd go for that too. I think the parking is well managed at the new Canadian Tire site on Lakeshore and Leslie.
greenleaf
Senior Member
Fine. You can drive. But as you must be aware, driving is bad for the environment. And there are numerous social costs. This has been covered extensively by the press.
I think the blame lies in bad public policy allowing suburbs to expand and requiring huge subsidies so that basic services are met in low density areas. This policy also created a society that depends on a car and has created a culture of entitlement (lots of roads, free parking, low gas prices).
Thankfully, governments (on a whole) are responding with transit plans and diverting money away from roads towards public transit, where the money supports more people and serves a greater good.
And free parking is a huge culprit. This sums it up well:
"Parking is free to the driver for most vehicle trips. Free, but not cheap. According to evaluations by Mark Delucchi of the University of California at Davis, we spend about as much to subsidize off-street parking as we do on Medicare or national defense. The additional driving encouraged by free parking also increases traffic congestion, air pollution and accidents. To fuel this extra driving, we import more oil, and pay for it with borrowed money."
or from here:
"We never tally the hidden cost of driving. Americans spend $200 million a day building and rebuilding the country’s roads...Gas taxes and user fees cover only 60 percent of the more than $30 billion spent annually. Add on another $68 billion annually for highway patrols, traffic management and accident-related policework. The estimated annual external cost of driving (including air pollution, climate change, imported oil security, congestion, accidents, noise, etc.) is $126.3 billion."
These examples from the US, but it's the same here. The Vehicle Registration Tax created and approved by City Council is more than justified and completely fair. And why should the tax (public money) go towards helping private car owners? That's ridiculous.
I agree that the money shouldn't go to the general revenue. It should go directly to support capital improvements for public transit.
toraerach
Active Member
People who drive everywhere are addicted to their cars and generally there is no reasoning with them. Spending hundreds of dollars a month on something you do not need (especially in a dense city) and causing harm to yourself and others certainly sounds like an addict to me. Thousands of people in Toronto and millions around the world do not have cars and get on just fine.
If the bigbox store is built, I really don't see it lasting all that long - at least in the form its planned in. It will have way too much surface parking to survive so close to downtown through the next few real estate booms.
If the area residents really wanted to shut down the Wal-Mart after it (probably) gets built, they should all get jobs there and try to unionize.
nstuch
Active Member
some people don't drive everywhere though, i for one drive some of the time because it is the most enjoyable and convenient form of transport out there, and other times i have the misfortune of taking the TTC, because my wife and i have only one car between us. If i drive to work it takes 15 minutes, if i take the streetcar it takes 45 minutes, and it's even worse on the way home. so why on earth would i voluntarily choose the worst and most inconvenient option to go shopping?
why pick on people in the city for driving when they probably only drive an average of 5-10km per trip? Go to Milton or Brampton and complain there, in Leslieville, even with car drivers you're already preaching to the converted. I think the studies you are referring to are measuring the cost of free parking in US suburbia and exurbia where it is invariably free, in Toronto there's not much in the way of free parking and where it is free like at the queens quay loblaws or the odd LCBO it doesn't exactly sprawl for acres since the land is so expensive
why pick on people in the city for driving when they probably only drive an average of 5-10km per trip? Go to Milton or Brampton and complain there, in Leslieville, even with car drivers you're already preaching to the converted. I think the studies you are referring to are measuring the cost of free parking in US suburbia and exurbia where it is invariably free, in Toronto there's not much in the way of free parking and where it is free like at the queens quay loblaws or the odd LCBO it doesn't exactly sprawl for acres since the land is so expensive
TOinTO
Active Member
I'm struck by the absurdity that you live in an area that was built over 100 years ago, and yet you feel entitled to all of the automotive conveniences of modern sprawl. It's like someone living in Venice and complaining about the lack of roads.
Move to Vaughan or Milton or Pickering or where ever - there are literally thousands of square miles of what you seek available. Then you could enjoy the ultimate outcome of your quest for free parking and speedy driving from any A to B.
Leave the small, old part of the city for those of us who cling to quaint notions of walkable neighbourhoods and streets that you want to 'go to' rather than just drive along.
Of course, you'll live in a completely bland and boring shit hole, but that's what you end up with when you build a city for cars rather than people.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Hmm...I believe I've already replied to that line of thinking in the thread above. Besides, your analogy is flawed, since it would more like someone living in Venice and complaining about the lack of waterways, since Toronto was built around it's carriage and then roadways. We had private transportation well before we had public transportation.
BTW, one the things I love about living downtown is its walkability, which is one of the reasons I left Fredericton, NB, since you had to drive in your car to buy a carton of milk. I walk and shop all over Cabbagetown. If there was a job in the city for me, I'd likely be on the TTC all the time. from 2000 to 2004 I worked at Yonge and Lawrence and quite enjoyed my walk or streetcar run from Cabbagetown to College and my short subway run. But that job is gone, as is trhe company, having moved its office to Mississauga where the taxes are more competitive. My family got by very well with only one vehicle, that we infrequently used, at least until our kids were born.
I believe a city can have both walkability with local shops as well as useable roads for private auto use. The thing is, the Smart Centre will be a local shopping area, usable for transit, walkers and car drivers. Are we calling for the closure of Gerrard Square Mall, located less than 2 km from Leslieville, because they offer free parking and have a Home Depot that's competiting with local or less successful hardware shops?
Last edited: