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Barnaby said:
Transit stations need to be held to the same standard as the lobby in City Hall, Clairview Rec Centre, Commonwealth Rec Centre, or EPS headquarters. They are all public places of business that require a basic amount of respect for others.

I do not understand why this can't be said by many.
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Because it would cost hot gobs of money to patrol the entire transit system to the same level as City Hall? The tough on crime approach has been tried countless times and won't work. Adding turnstiles in transit stations, hiring hundreds of police officers, trying to teach troublemakers a "lesson" by throwing the book at them -- all expensive solutions that won't actually solve the problem.

I stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that there was private security at Coliseum station the day that lady was almost beaten to death. How many police officers are going to be required at stations and in trains to keep people safe? If we're closing in on 30% of the entire operational budget spent on police and we're still not getting the outcomes we want, maybe another approach should be considered?
 
tkoe_ said:
Because it would cost hot gobs of money to patrol the entire transit system to the same level as City Hall? The tough on crime approach has been tried countless times and won't work. Adding turnstiles in transit stations, hiring hundreds of police officers, trying to teach troublemakers a "lesson" by throwing the book at them -- all expensive solutions that won't actually solve the problem.

I stand to be corrected, but my understanding is that there was private security at Coliseum station the day that lady was almost beaten to death. How many police officers are going to be required at stations and in trains to keep people safe? If we're closing in on 30% of the entire operational budget spent on police and we're still not getting the outcomes we want, maybe another approach should be considered?
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Please re-read what I wrote. You didn't even respond to what I said.
 
NYC 80s and 90s cleanup shows policing is part of the solution and works. Folks have to stop parroting lines from US activists that policing doesn't work. That line of thinking has already been discredited in large American cities but for some strange reason still seems to be alive here. Policing (and other services) is an essential part of ensuring public order.
 
I witnessed a person fling his backpack under a fare gate and then squeeze through the wide gates intended for wheelchairs in Vancouver. So those who are a threat to safety are still getting on the system, paid or non-paid. Translink never wanted it citing that what they would recoup in fare losses would be a fraction of operational costs, but the BC Government threatened to reduce provincial government funding without measures to reduce fare evasion.
 
I mean look, at a basic level the LRT is a heated public space in one of the coldest cities in the world with little access control. They are not substitutes for shelters at all, however I do think it highlights a need for some sort of high capacity winter shelter.

As much as kicking out the unhoused and unkempt with black rifles looks tough it doesn't actually solve the fundamental problem: We have a growing number of people living rough, with almost nowhere to go, in a city where not having shelter will kill you.

Call me a bleeding heart but I think there is a huge failure somewhere where so many people have gotten to this point.
 
Garneau2Go said:
I mean look, at a basic level the LRT is a heated public space in one of the coldest cities in the world with little access control. They are not substitutes for shelters at all, however I do think it highlights a need for some sort of high capacity winter shelter.

As much as kicking out the unhoused and unkempt with black rifles looks tough it doesn't actually solve the fundamental problem: We have a growing number of people living rough, with almost nowhere to go, in a city where not having shelter will kill you.

Call me a bleeding heart but I think there is a huge failure somewhere where so many people have gotten to this point.
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I acknowledge that kicking people out of transit and transit centers isnt the solution to end homelessness.

However, transit and transit stations are not homeless shelters, so kicking people out and policing transit centers is a solution to the general public feeling unsafe using transit and keeping our stations from becoming homeless shelters/bathrooms.

This is a generalization but I see it as one problem becoming two problems i.e. homelessness bleeding into transit safety and cleanliness issues. Properly police transit like you would any other civic infrastructure and you help improve the public safety and cleanliness issue.

Right now whatever the hell approach the city is doing is not working for either issues.
 
CaptainBL said:
This is a generalization but I see it as one problem becoming two problems i.e. homelessness bleeding into transit safety and cleanliness issues.
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For what it's worth I agree with you and don't think we're really far off here. Transit centres aren't substitutes for shelters or social services. Neither are libraries, rec centres or parks.

The situation on LRT is becoming untenable, something needs to be done. However whatever happens I believe needs to be part of a broader plan around homelessness because like you said the problems are interlinked.

CaptainBL said:
Right now whatever the hell approach the city is doing is not working for either issues.
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Yeah whatever the city is doing does feel a bit like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. If it's not Transit Centres, it's Chinatown, if it's not Chinatown it's the CBD.
 
I won't speak for anyone else, but I am certainly not suggesting there is no role for policing. The downtown and transit are both a mess and something needs to be done, but the question is what.

It is a fantasy to think turnstiles on the concourse of LRT stations are going to stop people from urinating and loitering around entrances. As has been pointed out, many people have nowhere to go so pushing them around is a futile waste of money. My hope is that some of the work by the downtown recovery coalition can get more shelter space and drug treatment, which may help.
 
I really wish government would stop attempting to address two problems at once, and getting nowhere trying to appease everyone.

Transit security should be the goal in transit centers, homelessness would better be addressed separately.

It's hard to improve safety if not willing to kick out unpaying riders. It's also hard to show compassion as you're kicking people out of warm and largely vacant transit stations.

A large cross section is simply mutually exclusive, so trying to address both, addresses nothing.
 
Tokyo, New York, and Montreal have fare gate attendants who provide information and are at least an extra set of eyes who can radio for nearby police. Fare gates without attendants are like expecting a television set to parent a child.

Or forego the costs of fare gates and implement more security.

Translink implemented these designated waiting areas decades ago that feature extra lighting, a security camera, and a security phone. Not sure how effective they are, either in reducing actual crime or increasing the perception of safety.

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Not sure how effective those are in Vancouver. The DWAs in Toronto are far more prominent and feature panic buttons that at least give the perception of safety
 
Foolworm said:

Turnstiles to be studied and re-tabled for discussion in summer 2024.
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Although i support further exploration of faregates, the idea of putting faregates on only two stations as a trial run seems silly? It's hard to imagine any meaningful information being gleaned from that.
I guess we'll get more info when they come back next summer with a plan, but would it be like; put faregates on say Coliseum, and see if assaults at that station are lower year over year? It's a very drawn out process, but I suppose council has been very opposed to the idea so if this is the only in, then it is what it is.
But I would think if we're already going through the trouble to procure and install faregates at two stations, we might as well at least reinstall them at all the old stations that are already designed for faregates. I can't imagine they're going to uninstall them after the trial, afterall.

Which old stations are built for faregates? Churchill, Central, Bay, Corona... Coliseum? and I can't remember, did Government Centre have a spot for them? Stadium used to be but now that's changed.
Regardless it's only a few, so if you're already doing 2, you might as well do all 5 or 6.
 
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