buildings
Active Member
speaking of fare gates, San Francisco / Bay Area BART getting an relevant upgrade:
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Barnaby
Active Member
Those don't look easy to jump!
I hope this happens soon, ETS is losing millions in revenue to fare evaders annually. Fare gates will pay for themselves in about a decade, as they did in Vancouver.
On Christmas I did a walk through of Stadium Station. Fare gates would be very easy to install on the platform ends for the East platform. The West platform can be done nicely, but would require a polycarbonate wall or a metal fence for small portions of the open areas that would not be filled by the gates. I think Stadium would be the most difficult, and most costly station on the Capital Line to outfit with fare gates. I wouldn't be bothered if Stadium Station went without gates due to the crowd sizes that are experienced for football games, but most especially major events like The Grey Cup, CMNT, Concerts, etc. The underground stations will be very simple. I believe the placement of the ARC machines and validators is due to the ETS being predictive of a future fare gate implementation.
I'd be okay with people getting "trapped" once they reach any other station on the line. It makes for easy enforcement, and signage could be made appropriately clear that you must pay. Tapping out of a fare gate would also charge their card, so they wouldn't be actually trapped.
Regarding the Metro Line, fare gates aren't happening on the two Blatchford stations. They are essentially just big Valley Line stops. MacEwan and Royal Alex could both use them, however I think they'd require some rethinking of the ARC machine placements. It's probably not worth the hassle of the gates at Royal Alex, but I think consulting with the hospital would sway anyone. If the hospital staff would prefer it, do it.
Davies Station would be a good candidate for fare gates, along with the two elevated stations for VLW. None of the Valley Line "stops" are suitable. That's okay!
What I'd like to see is the subway stations all have fully functional fare gates, with the Park and Ride locations also having them to prevent irregular users from not paying during events (I think this happens a ton). NFC payment is a must before any fare gates are installed. The city should make it as easy as possible for infrequent users to tap their phone or card while paying the slightly higher cash fare of $3.50.
Below is a smart gate made by Vix. They are the the company behind ARC, so compatibility would be simple. I have zero doubts that these gates could be sourced and installed at a trial station in very little time, for very little money.
I hope this happens soon, ETS is losing millions in revenue to fare evaders annually. Fare gates will pay for themselves in about a decade, as they did in Vancouver.
On Christmas I did a walk through of Stadium Station. Fare gates would be very easy to install on the platform ends for the East platform. The West platform can be done nicely, but would require a polycarbonate wall or a metal fence for small portions of the open areas that would not be filled by the gates. I think Stadium would be the most difficult, and most costly station on the Capital Line to outfit with fare gates. I wouldn't be bothered if Stadium Station went without gates due to the crowd sizes that are experienced for football games, but most especially major events like The Grey Cup, CMNT, Concerts, etc. The underground stations will be very simple. I believe the placement of the ARC machines and validators is due to the ETS being predictive of a future fare gate implementation.
I'd be okay with people getting "trapped" once they reach any other station on the line. It makes for easy enforcement, and signage could be made appropriately clear that you must pay. Tapping out of a fare gate would also charge their card, so they wouldn't be actually trapped.
Regarding the Metro Line, fare gates aren't happening on the two Blatchford stations. They are essentially just big Valley Line stops. MacEwan and Royal Alex could both use them, however I think they'd require some rethinking of the ARC machine placements. It's probably not worth the hassle of the gates at Royal Alex, but I think consulting with the hospital would sway anyone. If the hospital staff would prefer it, do it.
Davies Station would be a good candidate for fare gates, along with the two elevated stations for VLW. None of the Valley Line "stops" are suitable. That's okay!
What I'd like to see is the subway stations all have fully functional fare gates, with the Park and Ride locations also having them to prevent irregular users from not paying during events (I think this happens a ton). NFC payment is a must before any fare gates are installed. The city should make it as easy as possible for infrequent users to tap their phone or card while paying the slightly higher cash fare of $3.50.
Below is a smart gate made by Vix. They are the the company behind ARC, so compatibility would be simple. I have zero doubts that these gates could be sourced and installed at a trial station in very little time, for very little money.
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Glenco
Senior Member
Waiting for a train at Corona yesterday morning when some idiot decided to jump on the tracks just before a train entered the station. Don’t know what he was trying to do but the train had to stop as it was about to enter the station.
trevorhayden
Active Member
Yeg wave posts fake news about people then asks for money to remove the posts.
trevorhayden
Active Member
Yeg wave posts fake news about people then asks for money to remove the posts.
David A
Senior Member
Tapping out at the exit is actually not a bad idea and would make it more difficult for fare evaders who I think also tend to be the cause of much of the social disorder and messes on transit .
I have went to other cities where that is done, so it is both possible and doable. There is already security in the stations, so they could monitor that and people would quickly figure out that ETS is more serious about enforcement so the problems would probably diminish considerably, fairly quickly.
dkazzed
Active Member
New York City's attempts to stop fare evaders. The problem is that emergency exits exist. The video also catches someone piggybacking a fare-paying passenger through the new gates that were supposed to deter jump-overs and crawl-unders.
David A
Senior Member
Of course there is never going to be anything 100% effective, but deterrence and prevention never is. Just because locks don't always succeed in working is not a good argument for not locking your door.
Barnaby
Active Member
I hope Edmonton will follow the Bay Area's lead and install these wherever possible.
Foolworm
Active Member
Should Sound Transit install gates to stop fare evasion?
Fare dodging happens for all to see in a gateless light rail system that relies on riders' willingness to pay and inspectors' sporadic checks. Are fare gates possible in Seattle?
www.seattletimes.com
The Urbanist article with the draft report that was referenced is here:
Is Sound Transit Closing In on Fare Gates for Link and Sounder? - The Urbanist
#Stephen Fesler November 21, 2023 An agency report obtained by The Urbanist lays out three key scenarios to implement fare gates with the goal of driving up fare compliance and revenue. Fare policy has a been a hotly contested issue at Sound Transit for the past few years, due in large part to...
www.theurbanist.org
It seems entirely plausible that fare gates for the high floor system would be a 9-digit cost in today's market.
EdwardEdm
Active Member
I read somewhere that Tim Cartmell had an unsolicited quote for $30 million.
Vancouver was $195 million for 53 stations ($3.7 million each).
St. Louis was $45.8 million for 38 stations ($1.2 million each)
BART was $90 million for 50 stations ($1.8 million each).
Of course, those figures are a bit dated, and expect for maybe the Vancouver number, are in USD.
I do think though that a 9 digit cost would extreme for Edmonton, given that not even all of our stations would be able to be set up with fare gates. I do think the $30 million is a bit low however.
I don't know if I already said it in here, but, I feel that that $400 million figure out of Calgary was simply insane. I think to arrive at that figure they included extensive modifications so that even 7th Ave Stations which are essentially part of the side walk, would have fare gates.
In other LRT safety news... with the onset of the cold weather, I was pleasantly surprised how "normal" my trip around the LRT was today. I didn't see anything I like I have in years past on the trains or in the pedways around Central Station. It felt like riding the LRT pre-pandemic.
Glenco
Senior Member
All downtown stations Plus university and Clareview and possibly Belvedere and Health sciences and Southgate. That would be 10 stations at $2mil each? Century Park would be difficult because of the volume they would probably have to widen the pedway to accommodate the barriers.
EdwardEdm
Active Member
The problem I see with Century Park and Southgate. They seem like they would be easy stations to set up fare gates in, but, when you consider that the pedways are there for non-transit pedestrian use as well, suddenly it becomes a lot more challenging to configure fare gates, short of deciding to exclude pedestrians.
Glenco
Senior Member
For the casual user for someone is transiting from the transit centre they could use their ARC card and not be charged if they go right through. They could program it to give people time to go through without being charged.
Foolworm
Active Member
They can install the gates at platform level instead.