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That's not really true; you can take on debt and buy it back again. You do whatever makes sense financially at the time.

IMO, Toronto shouldn't be subsidizing Toronto Hydro rates. Either the dividend needs to increase to something more reasonable or it should be dumped and debt taken off the books.

Look at it the other way. Would we borrow $3.8B for $60M/year repayment?

Toronto Hydro dividends since 2009:

2009: $25.2 million
2010: $25.0 million
2011: $33.1 million
2012: $48.0 million
2013: $43.0 million
2014: $60.6 million
2015: $56 million

See a trend?

Here's something else to consider: Toronto Hydro's profits are exempt from taxes if it is 90%+ owned by the city. That tax exempt status disappears if Tory is successful, further reducing dividends.

Furthermore, dividends are only one part of the revenue picture for the city. Toronto Hydro returns only 50% of its net income to the city in dividends. The rest is reinvested in the company. So the company returns more to the city than the dividends show. If you want a real picture of what Toronto Hydro returns to the city, you have to look at net income.
 
I just hope that Toronto's news media will make the Toronto Hydro sale at least half as big a deal for Tory as they've made the HydroOne sale for Wynne. But who am I kidding. Tory has made so many questionable decisions that we've never heard a peep of media coverage on.
 
Please Doug Ford, run for Mayor against Tory in two years... and get (Doug) kicked to the curb.
 
Please Doug Ford, run for Mayor against Tory in two years... and get (Doug) kicked to the curb.
There is a HUGE difference in polls taken when there is no election (and opponent) and when there is. All this poll tells me is that people think Tory has not done anything amazingly stupid or embarrassing (see Rob Ford) and that things are 'ok'. When there is something/someone to compare him against this will change as the City faces huge challenges and it will be interesting to see how he fares against other candidates - some of whom may want further gravy hunts, others may actually want "City Building". and be truthful about how this will be paid for!
 
Be careful what you wish for.

From link.

Toronto politicians banking too heavily on 'private sector magic'
The private sector will always prioritize profits over people. Government is supposed to do the opposite.

A reminder to Mayor John Tory and other members of Toronto City Council: the private sector is not magic.
Saying that might seem unnecessary. Outside of October baseball games, magic is not a real thing. Everyone knows that.

But lately there have been increased levels of magical thinking about the private sector at city hall, and it’s starting to make me nervous.

First, consider Tory’s recent push to sell off parts of Toronto Hydro.

The mayor has argued that “unlocking the value” of the city-owned energy utility might be necessary to fix the city’s aging power infrastructure. He’s warned that without an injection of money, city hall will need to raise property taxes to pay for grid upgrades.

It’s a weird argument. Investors, as a rule, aren’t rushing to buy companies with massive unfunded infrastructure liabilities. They don’t snap up government-owned assets out of the goodness of their hearts.

They buy things to get a return.

The notion that Hydro can’t afford to pay for infrastructure needs is complicated by the fact that the agency has paid the city more than $250 million in dividends since 2010.

Why wasn’t that cash used to finance grid upgrades? Is Toronto really going to sacrifice long-term dividend potential for short-term infrastructure fixes?

Meanwhile, over at the TTC, some more magic.

Last week’s meeting of the TTC board saw commissioners consider a report on “microtransit.”

The report wasn’t about awesome model railroads, but instead about the TTC partnering with the private sector to provide some kind of alternative transit service in hard-to-serve areas.

There are a growing number of examples of microtransit around the world. Everything from dollar vans in New York City to shared ridesharing options offered through Uber.

On its own, the idea is mostly inoffensive. There may well be a role for more private involvement in spaces where the TTC can’t justify running a full-service bus route.

Where things get ridiculous is when microtransit is held up as something that can disrupt the traditional government-funded model of public transit.

Again, the reason comes down to profits.

In North America, transit is not a money-making venture. It’s heavily subsidized. Private companies might be willing to take small parts of the transit market – the part where riders can afford to pay higher fares, for example – but they’re never going to insert themselves in the part of transit delivery that costs money.

If there aren’t profits to be had, they’re not going to show up.

And there’s nothing wrong with that. Scolding the private sector for seeking profits is like scolding a raccoon for seeking your green bin. But keeping that motivation in mind is critical. The private sector will always prioritize profits over people. Government is supposed to do the opposite.
 
Remember that John Tory used to run Rogers. Guess where can one get the cheaper cell service? Not Rogers.

See link.
 
Remember that John Tory used to run Rogers. Guess where can one get the cheaper cell service? Not Rogers.

To be fair, Tory was only ever President / CEO of Rogers Media (the publications / broadcasting stations) and then Rogers Cable. He didn't run the wireless division.
 
At the risk of taking this thread completely off topic........I always thought the problem w/the wireless industry in this country was too much competition.

If they had one set of cell towers, one call centre, no marketing, no customer retention or win-back, and that savings went into lower rates (via regulation), you could get both a healthy
ROI for shareholders and a better price for consumers.

When Bell ran the home phone business that way, a line was much cheaper (in inflation adjusted terms) than it is now.
 
...
When Bell ran the home phone business that way, a line was much cheaper (in inflation adjusted terms) than it is now.

Except that the phones was dial only, NO call display anything, NO call answer, NO voicemail (not even a recording device), NO call forward... You had to rent the phone from Bell, no third party phones.
 
Police officers are harassing pedestrians again for "not crossing the street properly", as part of John Tory's congestion plan. He wants you to know that you're in the way of cars.






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Police officers are harassing pedestrians again for "not crossing the street properly", as part of John Tory's congestion plan. He wants you to know that you're in the way of cars.






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The cops are also going after drivers who don't stop at red lights when turning, blocking intersections, and cars that block pedestrian crossings. So much for your argument.

See link.
 
Furthermore, dividends are only one part of the revenue picture for the city. Toronto Hydro returns only 50% of its net income to the city in dividends. The rest is reinvested in the company. So the company returns more to the city than the dividends show. If you want a real picture of what Toronto Hydro returns to the city, you have to look at net income.

Exactly. All of the revenue is just continuously recycled through the public. You can question how it is used, but at least it isn't going into private corporate pockets.
 

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