Richard White
Senior Member
As much as I would love to see the Gardiner come down, the City just pumped alot of money into it. As well, it costs money to tear it down.
It is the Provinces problem now.
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- Thread starter DSC
- Start date
As much as I would love to see the Gardiner come down, the City just pumped alot of money into it. As well, it costs money to tear it down.
It is the Provinces problem now.
T3G
Senior Member
Politicians not making good on big promises they make is a fundamental of politics.
Northern Light
Superstar
picard102
Senior Member
People shouldn't vote for someone promising things they have no power to do.
turini2
Active Member
From the Gardiner thread a while back...
This deal doesn't look terrible - Ford was always going to win the Ontario Place battle, regardless of how much Chow/Council jumped up and down.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
People voted for Chow to do a multitude of things; unfortunately OP simply isn't a city-uniting issue; I'd say the budget and TTC is.
I do hope that the WT Gardiner/LSW public realm improvement doesn't get affected. Not sure what this will do the the realignment scheme though. Fundamentally it just punts the issue of the highway down the road further - and governments don't stay the same - it may be possible to see more movement ironically given the ability the fiscal wherewithal of the province.
AoD
voilan
New Member
Press conference notes:
- Ford:
- Platitudes
- Funding for shelters/beds, security on TTC, ETC and FWLRT projects
- 7.6 billion in capital relief by uploading DVP and Gardiner, Ford pledges no tolls on them ever
- Toronto to meet or exceed housing construction goals, mentions near transit stations in particular
- To find surplus government-owned lands to build housing
- City accepts provincial authority over OP
- More platitudes, requests more federal involvement
- Chow:
- Heartstring-pulling focused on housing
- City to spend billions more on housing and transit through highway upload
- Structural change to Toronto's finances, but isn't enough. Continued provincial-municipal conversations necessary to address Toronto's financial sustainability
- Also calls on federal government, wants 1/3 of money for Line 2 cars (where province has pledged 50% of budget - is this new?)
- Q+A:
- Why cede control of Ontario Place?
- Chow: Position is clear, OP should be a park. But it belongs to provincial government, and city does not have authority to prevent development
- Debate over OP will happen at QP, not at the city.
- Possibility of shifting parking lot to Exhibition Place, opening up more waterfront space
- Science Centre location will maintain certain programs (seems to be final confirmation of OSC moving to OP)
- Will DF accept parking lot moving?
- OP is minor part of the deal, uploading highways will save the city billions
- More funding to TTC security (dodging the question)
- Other cities say they're broke too, why not replicate in other cities?
- DF has worked and will continue to work with other cities
- Toronto is unique, only city with subway that moves millions, province+city+feds are collaborating to double the subway
- Toronto and GTA represents 50% of Ontario GDP, 20% of Canadian GDP, more calls for fed involvement
- RCMP Greenbelt question
- Ford says will go along with whatever RCMP wants
- Wants to focus on the deal, more question-dodging
- Province always had authority on OP, isn't this pricey for moving city out of the way?
- OP is a minor issue overall
- Was losing millions per year, want to create more opportunities and bring in tourism, etc
- Maybe parking lot isn't the best place, let's move it to EP
- DF will work with anyone. He knows the deal is good because both sides aren't happy. Province doesn't want the highway responsibility either
- Fed involvement is critical, so what's missing?
- Toronto is 20% of Ontario population, has minimum 50% of asylum seekers
- We need fed funding to address this, help seekers get work permits
- Fed has been a good partner in many ways, but now is the most important time for collaboration
- Why not do this deal under Tory?
- DF says he did help Tory, but this is a new chapter
- Tory is involved, gives advice
- Why the timing (some over 3 years, some now)?
- DF says will certainly help with city finances
- Upload will happen no matter what the due diligence process says
- OC: Summarizes some funding details, suggests that budget is considerably freed up (including provincial funding of 700 million plus for Line 2 cars)
- 342 million for housing, first year in June 2024, so can plan to build much more (in addition to federal funding)
- Capital over 10 years is 3-5 billion or more
- Deal is historic, both OC and DF have played with the evocative term "new deal"
- TTC state of good repair will also be funded (signaling, station renovations)
- Is OSC moving to OP?
- OSC will be moved to OP, took political will
- OSC is city property and legacy will be respected, will respect whatever city wants to do (schools, etc)
- OC: It's a partnership opportunity to maintain science programming
- Housing on that site will be up to the city (OC says no housing)
- How can Use it or Lose it policy not be punitive?
- DF: Developers ask for MZO, then see stalling. That's unacceptable, will work with municipalities
- Construction is highest priority, and will do anything to help
- Must work together with developers
- Ontario is fastest growing region in NA, we welcome immigrants into strong economy, but need shelter
- Follow-up: Companies need to start building. If no punitive approach, then did you water down the policy?
- Builders need more infrastructure, need federal involvement on infrastructure
- Water and sewer are critical to preventing rapid construction
- Does province have ability to change DVP/Gardiner?
- DF says no ability to widen these highways, so answer is no
- No cost-sharing on highways
- Cost-sharing on OSC?
- Wait for IO to discuss later this week
- OC: OSC is owned by city, Ontario government has 99yr lease. Actual building owned and operated by province
- Upkeep and programming is provincial responsibility
- Partnership to ensure no one loses out, maintain some science programming
- City feels it needs sustainable and growing revenue. On 1.2 billion, are you committed to that in perpetuity?
- This will be a continued partnership. New things may pop up in future so will revisit at that time
- DF thanks OC ("I have a soft spot for the Mayor")
- To OC: Funding won't meet 1.5 billion shortfall, so what do you do?
- This is a good first step, needs federal government to step up
- Conversation will continue
- Why cede control of Ontario Place?
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Richard White
Senior Member
TL: DR?
Northern Light
Superstar
On the Gardiner front........I expect the province will upload a large number of the City staff currently overseeing the project and transfer them into the MTO.
There's a large contingent of Transportation assigned to these items and and the MTO is kind of lean these days....
The province will pick up the tab next year (2024) the but the City will still oversee it until at least 2025.
****
On the Ontario Place front.............
I said over in the applicable thread, this offer doesn't really make a lot of sense, its not where the controversy is, unless, the desire is to shift Therme to the parking lot, which I would support.
Northern Light
Superstar
Excellent synopsis, thank you.
Wasn't that long, took less time to read than you spent posting TL : DR
Post was thoughtful, worth taking the time to read.
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adys123
Active Member
The budget is a much larger issue to a larger group of people overall. Funding for new trains on Line 2 will help to prevent disasters like what happened to Line 3. And while the City loses control of what to do with the Gardiner and DVP, it gains the ability to do far more with the money that is freed up.
The province always had more authority on the Ontario Place, so whatever opposition from the City probably would've only amounted to stalling.
Priorities always have to be balanced against each other, I see this as her fulfilling her election promise to get a new deal process rolling and seeing some actual results.
Tory, who was more politically aligned with Ford, had many more years to do something to fix the City's budget hole, and essentially decided to just push it to the future. That is what I'd call not trying.
toonderly
Active Member
Huh? John Tory was a part of these negotiations between the city and the province? I can maybe understand that he might be giving advice to the province under the circumstances, but what does it mean to say that Tory is taking advice since he has no current political role? Or is this about when he was still mayor before any of this happened?
voilan
New Member
The question was "why didn't this happen under Tory", and DF basically responded that they have a good relationship and discussed this deal. I'll remove "take" for clarity, mistyped clearly.
SJD_Toronto
Active Member
This kind of deals tells me that Ana Bailao is the best mayor Toronto never had.
turini2
Active Member
Because she proposed an upload of the Gardiner and the DVP? Bit of a stretch...