[DavidH]

Brampton and Mississauga do not need to merge in order to shift transit (all or part) to the regional level. It would just take an agreement that transit (like, say, waste collection or policing) is better handled regionally than municipally.

Legally, shifting to the regional level requires a "triple majority". This means that regional council must approve it, a numeric majority of municipalities must approve it, and those approving municipalities must contain a majority of the Region's population.

In Peel, this could be satisfied with Brampton and Mississauga voting in favour OR Mississauga and Caledon voting in favour. In the latter case, Brampton's objections would be irrelevent and Brampton Transit would fold into the regional system regardless. And yes, the fact that Caledon HAS no transit system is also irrelevent; they would still have a say in the vote, just as Durham's northern communities had a say in the formation of DRT six years ago.

In practice, I can't see either of Mississauga or Brampton giving up control of their systems voluntarily, and there is no legal mechanism - short of convincing Queen's Park to change the rules - for uploading transit over Mississauga's objections, simply because that's how the triple majority would play out in Peel.

Of course, there's the former Ajax-Pickering Transit Authority model in which the the Brampton and Mississauga systems could merge and be jointly owned by the two municipalities - with Peel Region having no involvement. This is a very problematic model because you'd end up with two councils having different opinions. You'd either end up with stagnation or Mississauga winning every disagreement, depending on the terms of the agreement. I certainly don't see any indication that APTA worked well at all organizationally during its short lifespan. Transit systems really need to be responsible to a single entity.

 

[Dan416]

Brampton and Mississauga do not need to merge in order to shift transit (all or part) to the regional level. It would just take an agreement that transit (like, say, waste collection or policing) is better handled regionally than municipally.

It would not be an easy discussion (Brampton, as an example, would fear that more resources would be dedicated to the larger population to the south.) but it would not need a municipal merger. It would be, likely, something like this LRT project that would spur, at least, a discussion about it. Once you look at joint operational issues it would be hard to ignore the conversation that went .."if it makes sense for the LRT, why not BRT and regular bus routes too".

I will say that I have not heard a single Bramptonian say anything positive about this proposed LRT. No one that I have discussed it with seems to be vehemtly opposed to LRT in principle....just that they see this as offering very little benefit to Bramptonians in general. To paraphrase and condense the sort of comments I have heard....."Brampton gets a stub off of a line that runs mostly in Mississauga and it does not get me anywhere I need/want to go in any significantly faster way than I can already get there now.......by the time I get to Main Street to get on this I might as well have driven where I am going......what is the cost for those limited benefits.....why did/are we spending money on fancy bus systems if we are just going to replace/duplicate it on a LRT.....how much disruption is it gonna cause during construction...and for what?"

All limited sample size, anectdotal stuff....but it really is hard to counter some of it.

Someone thought that this would/should be the highest priority for Peel? I think a lot of people might suggest that they prefer that any provincial/metrolinx contribution to transit in Peel should go to enhancing GO service on the two limited service lines and let the municipalities augment bus/BRT service to interconnect.

Milton and Georgetown are GO/Metrolinx's responsibility, not Mississauga/Brampton's. The busiest road in Peel is Hurontario/Main. Therefore it only makes sense that it's a priority corridor. Just because it doesn't help every single person's trip doesn't mean it's not important.

I would personally be unlikely to use the HMLRT. But I still think it's important, and it's a good place for it.

That said, I wish we could see more trains on Milton and Georgetown, er, Kitchener rather.

 

[drum118]

Stadler is the way to go for our New Fleet

I am in Rome at this time and have uploaded videos from June 21 to July 7 at this time of various transit items as well rail.

I have yet to come upon any LRV other than the Stadler one that is better than what been proposed we get for Toronto.

I think our sole supplier needs to do more homework for the new LRV's for the city based on the Stadler model.

The new Stadler car in Croyton, UK is 100% lowfloor with with high seats over the wheels with a ramp to them. The rest of the seats are open bottom and level with the floor just like the seats on the current fleet.

The cab is duel in and only 3/4 width of the car to allow doors on either side of it. One side has a single door while the other is larger.

When the doors are open, there is a green light over the doorway and turns to red when closing.

Rode the car on July 2nd and saw the current fleet on July 1st.

Rode the T1-T3 in Paris as well in Barcelona.

One thing I have noticed to date, transit vehicles have 25% less seating capacity than at home, if not more.

No idea when I will have photos up, as I am still working on June 27th ones, but here are the videos. More up on site.
[video=youtube;ifUDIN6VYbM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifUDIN6VYbM[/video]
[video=youtube;XMvTQKyhmRk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMvTQKyhmRk[/video]
[video=youtube;ThaVmKxNcwk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThaVmKxNcwk[/video]

 

[TOareaFan]

Milton and Georgetown are GO/Metrolinx's responsibility, not Mississauga/Brampton's.

That is, of course, true. That said, Brampton and Mississauga are not going to fund/build this on their own. They are going to go and ask for funding from ML.....I (and other people that I have spoken to about this) think that ML's money would be better spent on the two GO lines. Sure if there is now an unlimited amount of money availalbe...do both....but I have not heard of the new unlimited pot of money available for Peel region transit initiatives.

The busiest road in Peel is Hurontario/Main.

Only if you do not count the 410 as a road.....and the people stuck on that every day would be better served (and more likely to ditch the car) with money flowing into increased GO rail service.

Therefore it only makes sense that it's a priority corridor. Just because it doesn't help every single person's trip doesn't mean it's not important.

Obviously, no project will serve every single person's trip.....the general feeling I get from talking to people (and that is all I was conveying) was that the benefit of LRT to the populace of Brampton is not great and not worth the cost or disruption when you consider that travel times are likely only slightly improved over Zum and there are other things that could be done with that money.

I would personally be unlikely to use the HMLRT. But I still think it's important, and it's a good place for it.

That said, I wish we could see more trains on Milton and Georgetown, er, Kitchener rather.

I (and, again, I was trying to paraphrase/condense comments I got from others) believe the HMLRT might have some value to Mississaugans and much less value to Bramptonians.

I did speak to one particularly cyinical friend who, strongly, believes that anyone who states they want full day service on the two limited service lines from the W/NW should be "actively opposing" the HMLRT. His logic went like this...."there is a limited amount of money available from government.....the money has to be spread across the region.....if HMLRT gets funded and built, anyone who wonders why there is not 7 day 2 way service on their GO line will be told 'we built you the HMLRT so that you could take the full service, every 30 minute lakeshore line' ".....I did not combine his thoughts into my earlier post because a) I am not that cynical and b) he was the only one saying that.

 

[Dan416]

As far as I'm concerned, it's not an either/or proposition. Both are needed.

 

[doady]

Hurontario is probably the corridor with the most unrealized potential in the GTA. Over 120,000 weekday boardings projected. Even combined, the all-day Milton and Georgetown line probably would not have that kind of ridership.

Light rail along Hurontario will probably force all-day Milton and Georgetown service anyways. Could GO continue to rely be reliant on park-and-ride facilities for these two east-west routes and totally ignore this north-south light rail line that directly connects them? Sounds crazy, but with GO, you never know.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Ex will feature a sneak peek at Toronto’s new LRVs

A prototype (actually a mock-up) of the low-floor LRVs that will play major new routes across Toronto in a few years. Besides a cab, as shown, at each end, three additional modules will make up a full LRV train, with multiple doors to allow for easy entrance and exit.

From The Star at this link.

This is a mock-up, not a prototype, of the double-ended low-floor light rail vehicles that will run on the Eglinton Crosstown, Sheppard East, and Finch West LRT's. They will be wider than the current and coming legacy low-floor streetcars that will run downtown.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Will it be the right colours though. And maybe they could make that one of the rides at the CNE

 

[drum118]

Here is what our sole supplier is using in Berlin as a 7 section. Some rough riding to the point almost went for a spill getting off the car based on the driver breaking.
[video=youtube;rv8s3yJmgzY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv8s3yJmgzY[/video]
[video=youtube;WbW1BpaV_N8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbW1BpaV_N8[/video]

 

[W. K. Lis]

If you have already seen the Bombardier Flexity Freedom mock-up at the CNE (located on Princes' Boulevard, on the south side of the Direct Energy Centre), you might have missed a couple of buttons on the mock-up.

It is the entry buttons:

The lower button could be for a ramp for wheelchair access through the double doors.

Single button for the single door.

Probably will need decals to explain what the buttons are for. Hopefully, the decal supplier will be one from Thunder Bay since that would be where the prototype and production vehicles will be manufactured. If a Toronto decal supplier would be used, that could mean a battle that would include the Ford brothers' company as well.

 

[drum118]

Don't need decals to tell what these buttons are.

Most systems and I stand to be corrected, have only one button per door set and no decal in Europe. Even the latch doors have no decal and each door has a latch to open them as a single door.

You will find buttons on all type of vehicles. Latches are also on all types of vehicles, except for buses.

Need to talk to these folks when I get home on Thursday and show them there is a better way to do the seats. Just saw Siemens 6 section in Budapest and their 5 & 3 in Wien, putting them into 2nd position after Stalder model for Toronto.

Look at the videos for Stadler back a few posting as how it is done in Croydon UK as well in Berlin.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Don't need decals to tell what these buttons are.

Most systems and I stand to be corrected, have only one button per door set and no decal in Europe. Even the latch doors have no decal and each door has a latch to open them as a single door.

You will find buttons on all type of vehicles. Latches are also on all types of vehicles, except for buses.

Need to talk to these folks when I get home on Thursday and show them there is a better way to do the seats. Just saw Siemens 6 section in Budapest and their 5 & 3 in Wien, putting them into 2nd position after Stalder model for Toronto.

Look at the videos for Stadler back a few posting as how it is done in Croydon UK as well in Berlin.

I can see them using decals for the first year or so. After which, they can wear away from hands and weather.

 

[datamouse]

The aisle is very narrow. That it feels tight when the mock-up is nearly empty doesn't give me great hope for it at rush hour. Anyone know for sure if this is an issue only with the mock-up and the final design will be better?

 

[drum118]

The aisle is very narrow. That it feels tight when the mock-up is nearly empty doesn't give me great hope for it at rush hour. Anyone know for sure if this is an issue only with the mock-up and the final design will be better?

If you look at the video I shot in Berlin a few weeks ago of the 7 section, the seating are the same as the Mock-up. Based on the photos posted from the CNE, final production model.

Even Siemens aisle are narrow on their model.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The aisle is very narrow. That it feels tight when the mock-up is nearly empty doesn't give me great hope for it at rush hour. Anyone know for sure if this is an issue only with the mock-up and the final design will be better?

Go ride the Montréal Metro and take measurements. Then compare the measurements with our Subway, streetcars, AND the new Flexity Freedom vehicles. Our Subways cars are very wide, the Flexity Freedom will be wider than the Montréal Metro cars and our current streetcars.

But 10 cm or 2 inches is like releasing your belt bucket a couple of holes after eating a big lunch. It may not be much, but better than before.