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- Thread starter W. K. Lis
- Start date
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The TTC will be owning and operating 204 new Bombardier Flexity Outlook models as single-ended streetcars. They will be given the number 4400-4603, in red and white colours.
Metrolinx will be owning, but the TTC will be operating, 182 new Bombardier Flexity Freedom models as double-ended LRV’s for the Transit City lines. What numbers will they be given, and what colours will they have?
The Peter Witts streetcars had TTC numbers 2300-3018 (even numbers only), while the trailers had TTC numbers 2301-3029 (odd numbers only). The current TTC roster has a gap between 1830 and 2999 inclusive. There were diesel buses with those numbers, but are now retired.
Speculation at the moment, but does anyone know if the Freedom models will be assigned with TTC colours and numbers? Personally, I would like to see them in red and white colours, and assigned with the 2000 series of numbers, in memory of the old Peter Witts streetcars.
Referenced http://www.cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Toronto_Transit_Commission for the numbers.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
they will be red coloured, as the TTC will be operating them, and therefore branding them. don't expect a "GO Crosstown", but rather, "TTC Crosstown". no idea on the numbers.
drum118
Superstar
Since these cars are own by Metrolinx, they will use GO Transit numbers or be assgin numbers by Metrolinx.
They will be in GO Transit colours.
If they are to be TTC numbers, will be in the 4400-4700 range, with the PCC's retaining their numbers.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
why would they be GO colours if they will be operated by the TTC and use the TTC fare structure? makes no sense. Now I wouldn't be surprised if they use Metrolinx numbers, as that is more technical and better expresses ownership. If they are coloured green to represent GO, that will do nothing but confuse people, especially since the FWLRT and SELRT are meant to be local services.
DavidJamesTO
Active Member
Build streetcars for Toronto, draw them cruising through Detroit.
drum118
Superstar
Most riders don't care what the colours are so long they can get on it using TTC fare.
TTC will not be the first system in NA to have different colours equipment. LA has that already in service. Even Mississauga has it.
Its branding.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
When the CLRV's and ALRV's came on board at the TTC, they took over the air-electric PCC numbers, starting at 4000. The Bombardier Flexity Outlooks will take over the all-electric PCC numbers, starting at 4400. The previously owned (almost new) PCC streetcars from various U.S. cities had started with their numbering at 4550.
The Bombardier Flexity Freedoms numbering are unknown at this time. The mock-up of the green, black, and grey Freedom model at last year's CNE did not any numbers on it.
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nfitz
Superstar
I'd have thought the simplest thing to do would be to simply number them in an unrelated range. Perhaps the range that the RT cars are in ... the 3000s, as they will be unused by TTC by the time they become operational. It also doesn't conflict with any GO Transit (Metrolinx) numbers or even Grand River transit numbers ...
As far as colour, I'd think you'd want to make sure they look different enough from the legacy vehicles, so that people differentiate between them. I'd assume that the existing green colour scheme or something similar would be retained.
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Back in September Karen Stintz said that they would be in TTC red. When did this change?
nfitz
Superstar
Hadn't heard that. Where did Karen say this?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
This isn't the Tweet I was talking about, but it's regarding the same issue. On August 23rd, she had this to say:
But a month later she had this to say about the LRVs being painted green:
It seems like the LRVs were originally meant to be Metorlinx Green but somewhere along the line they made an agreement to paint it TTC Red. That would explain why Stintz was taken by surprise when the LRV model was green.
I do remember her mentioning at one point that they were planning to make it TTC Red. But I am unable to find the post. Perhaps I'm looking on the wrong service/account, or suffering from a case of bad memory.
One more thing, we do know that the ECLRT will be TTC branded. It would then be strange for Metrolinx to paint the LRVs green. Having TTC logos all over ECLRT and then branding vehicle livery completely different from the rest of the line would be confusing to say the least.
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drum118
Superstar
According to TTC today, they have no idea what the colours are going to be as well the numbering.
They do agree with me that they will be green to match GO colours as well their numbering system.
TTC does agree that branding of colours will have next to no impact on riders so long they can get on it using TTC fare media or the Presto card. They pointed out Mississauga as an example where there is 3 different colours been used on buses now.
Even Metrolinx is unsure what is going to take place yet for the cars.
The new cars may come with different seat colours and signs to meet the accessibility requirements for the accessibility seats and areas.
They do agree with me that they will be green to match GO colours as well their numbering system.
TTC does agree that branding of colours will have next to no impact on riders so long they can get on it using TTC fare media or the Presto card. They pointed out Mississauga as an example where there is 3 different colours been used on buses now.
Even Metrolinx is unsure what is going to take place yet for the cars.
The new cars may come with different seat colours and signs to meet the accessibility requirements for the accessibility seats and areas.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Wait what? You start off saying you don't know what colour they will be, but then continue on saying that they will be green..
drum118
Superstar
I said or should say, TTC doesn't know the colour.
I expect to see Green since they are own by Metrolinx in the first place to match GO Transit colours which is already under Metrolinx control.