[Komiksulo]

If you have a default trip set and you plan to get off at a station other than your default I recommend that you override. There's the potential that you'll save money and there's also the chance that trips which were legal are no longer so.

Hmm. I wonder whether they could have designed it so that tapping off automatically overrides your default trip, and you wouldn't have had to press an 'override' button? Maybe if the system detects that you tapped on within your default route? Would that add too much of a computational overload to the system?

 

[RedRocket191]

I do not work for them, nor am I a computer programmer, but there is no way to tap off of a default trip without installing some sort of "tap-off button" to differentiate between a real tap-off and the start of a new trip. That's essentially an override button at the end of the trip instead of at the start.

The only advantage to this I can think of is if your train gets short turned or if you normally ride, say, Union to Hamilton but decide to take a train that requires a transfer at Aldershot - but the system will recognize that you've paid to the endpoint in either case anyway. I don't think there's any advantage to this.

 

[kkgg7]

has anyone noticed that this thread started in march 2006, and today, Sept 2011, 5.5 years later, we Torontonians are still using tokens? Where are the "smart cards"? The entire world outside are using fare cards where fare is automatically deducted, including cities in many third world countries. It is changing the fare system, not building a subway, not supposed to take this time. Shanghai has completed 6 subway lines in the past 3 years for Christ's sake.
oops, I ran out of tokens again, need to buy a dozen so that I won't face the awkwardness of not having one in my pockage while trying to board a streetcar.

 

[TOareaFan]

has anyone noticed that this thread started in march 2006, and today, Sept 2011, 5.5 years later, we Torontonians are still using tokens? Where are the "smart cards"? The entire world outside are using fare cards where fare is automatically deducted, including cities in many third world countries. It is changing the fare system, not building a subway, not supposed to take this time. Shanghai has completed 6 subway lines in the past 3 years for Christ's sake.
oops, I ran out of tokens again, need to buy a dozen so that I won't face the awkwardness of not having one in my pockage while trying to board a streetcar.

We take democracy and public consultation to the max here....and it is partly to blame for things taking so long to get done......yes Presto was announced 5.5 years ago and, yes, it is still not fully implemented but I find it kinda "toronto/GTA" that this great leap ahead was met with criticism from day 1....read the first few posts after the first one....right from the start it was under criticism.

 

[Electrify]

You can also thank Miller and Giambrone for doing everything in their power to fight it off of the TTC. One good thing about Ford is that by the time he leaves office, it should be working across the TTC (assuming there is still a TTC after Ford's term...).

Really, so much about how the TTC operates is so ass backwards, it's not funny. Our token machines look like they belong in a museum and don't even accept $5 bills, let alone cards. The newer pass machines have on their screens "YOU CAN PAY FOR YOUR METROPASS WITH YOUR DEBIT CARD!" Wow, really? I'm so glad I'm back in 1991!

If the TTC simply allowed passengers to buy fares with their cards, whether through a terminal or at a collector booth, they could probably put off implementing a full smart card system for another decade.

 

[Dan416]

You sir are 100% correct.

 

[In4matt]

Really, so much about how the TTC operates is so ass backwards, it's not funny...

If the TTC simply allowed passengers to buy fares with their cards, whether through a terminal or at a collector booth, they could probably put off implementing a full smart card system for another decade.

The TTC is assbackwards, but you want them to delay implementing a full smart card system for another decade???

The TTC is already lagging far behind in smart card technology.

Presto should be fully implemented on all TTC buses, streetcars and subways stations. You should be able to buy the cards at any station or several other outlets like convenience stores. The stations should have card reload machines that require no workers. Finally, the turnstiles should be update to more modern automated gates (like the one in my picture)

Not to mention the fare structures should be completely re-structured.

I feel embarrassed when my friends from other countries use the TTC, because of its backwardness and cost (basic fare $3.00)

 

[noctis]

The TTC is assbackwards, but you want them to delay implementing a full smart card system for another decade???

The TTC is already lagging far behind in smart card technology.

Presto should be fully implemented on all TTC buses, streetcars and subways stations. You should be able to buy the cards at any station or several other outlets like convenience stores. The stations should have card reload machines that require no workers. Finally, the turnstiles should be update to more modern automated gates (like the one in my picture)

Not to mention the fare structures should be completely re-structured.

I feel embarrassed when my friends from other countries use the TTC, because of its backwardness and cost (basic fare $3.00)

Finally someone is on the same page as me. I mentioned the same before, but it just seems like a lot people don't see it's importance, they think it's a going to be hassle and difficult to implement. I was in Taiwan 2 months ago, and when I took the MRT, it was clean, accessible, and easy to use. I say fully implement the Presto system, fire those useless TTC collectors and hire more cleaners! The washrooms are freakin' disgusting! Trains, buses, streetcars, and subway stations are full of garbage, newspapers, etc. everyday! It's making me sick...

 

[EnviroTO]

We take democracy and public consultation to the max here....and it is partly to blame for things taking so long to get done......yes Presto was announced 5.5 years ago and, yes, it is still not fully implemented but I find it kinda "toronto/GTA" that this great leap ahead was met with criticism from day 1....read the first few posts after the first one....right from the start it was under criticism.

I actually think that if there had been proper public consultation that Presto wouldn't have had so much criticism. I'm not convinced that buying a piece of plastic to load money on and then only being able to use that money on transit is a huge benefit. As antiquated as the TTCs fare mechanisms may be they work and process people efficiently. The turnstiles can move people through with Metropass and tokens as fast as people can walk through the turnstile. They are able to distribute Metropass at varying price points and large employers have the option of signing up for Value Incentive Plan cards that come right off their pay cheque. They are able to sell weekend day passes that for $10 move a family around the city with unlimited trips. I'm not convinced that Presto is capable of handling much fare flexibility, that it has worked out the reload and empty card issues completely, and I'm not convinced it is capable of moving large volumes of people through turnstiles. If I could tie Presto to a card I already carry around and if it would be able to load passes onto it like Day Passes or Value Incentive Plan passes, or Monthly Discount Plan passes, etc then there is no question it would add value. When you still need a separate fare mechanism for children, seniors, monthly pass, stickers on your monthly pass, etc the system is a bit of a joke. What problem where they solving? Solving a cash on hand problem by requiring a new card on hand in addition to the cards you already carry around which give access to money?

 

[noctis]

Let me put this way, if the Presto system was fully implemented on all TTC buses, streetcars, and subways, then we wouldn't have to worry about fraud issues; fake tokens, tickets, and what not. This has been a big problem over the past few years, and the way the TTC is going to solve this problem is to waste money on a project of making new fare boxes to catch cheaters? Tell me, what is the point of that? Why not just save that money and use it towards Presto?

We are only asking to get rid of the tokens and tickets, not the entire fare system. Like I mentioned before, should Presto be used, then I think it's better to charge fares by distance and not by a flat fare of $3. For example:

Distance Traveled
≤5 km: $1.00
6 -10 km: $1.50
11 - 15 km: $2.00
16 - 20 km: $2.50
>21 km: $3.00

How the tap on-off works:
Tap on at Finch Station, no fare is deducted. Tap off at Eglinton Station (~18 km trip), so $2.50 would be deducted.

For buses and streetcars:
Tap on when getting on buses and streetcars, and tap off when getting off (once again, fare is being charged by distance. For transferring (I am still working on this part), either charge nothing or charge half of the first leg of the trip. This way, transfer paper will become obsolete which SAVES money and keeps the system clean.

With regards to revamping the fare system, I am still working on that as well, but here is a reference of how they did it in Taiwan.

Source: Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taipei_Metro#Fares_and_tickets

 

[Electrify]

For the record, I do not think the TTC should accept cards and then hold off on Presto for another decade. I was just saying that it would at least be a step forward from what we are doing now.

 

[noctis]

And I am not asking for this to be fully implemented right away, obviously it's going to take time and money to think this through. Three to five years is acceptable, but another decade is just unbearable. In that time frame, think of something that will not involve using tickets and tokens. With regards to the new farebox system, I mean seriously, there's gotta be a better solution to that...

 

[nfitz]

Like I mentioned before, should Presto be used, then I think it's better to charge fares by distance and not by a flat fare of $3. For example:

Perhaps it should ... though it would be difficult to implement.

However, you'd have to keep it revenue neutral. If the average cash or token fare is about $2.60 or so now, it would still have to be the same. Generally for every fare that's $1.50 below the average, you'd need another fare that's $1.50 ABOVE the average.

 

[noctis]

Perhaps it should ... though it would be difficult to implment.

However, you'd have to keep it revenue neutral. If the average cash or token fare is about $2.60 or so now, it would still have to be the same. Generally for every fare that's $1.50 below the average, you'd need another fare that's $1.50 ABOVE the average.

then keep it the same, flat fare i mean. but for transfers i guess they could either charge nothing or half. still not too sure how that is going to work...

 

[rbt]

Let me put this way, if the Presto system was fully implemented on all TTC buses, streetcars, and subways, then we wouldn't have to worry about fraud issues; fake tokens, tickets, and what not.

You believe Presto fare cards cannot be duplicated?