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Tuscani01
Senior Member
noctis
Active Member
exactly what tuscani01 said...
Fred.S
Active Member
Money and passes and stuff is stored right on the card, and only updated when the readers are updated every 24 hours. I'm guessing that theoretically you could reprogram a card with more money which would work for a day before the system recognizes there's a problem, and then work for maybe another day when information to block the card is uploaded to the readers.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Presto doesn't change the ability to defraud the system, it simply moves the point of fraud from the turnstile to the mechanism that loads the card unless there is a suggestion that no cash will be accepted in the system and cards will only be loadable on-line from password protected credit card accounts.
rbt
Senior Member
No, the card isn't blank. It is a crossbreed between centralized and distributed. The card does record some information in addition to the account number but not much and it is mostly used as a delayed checksum.
The difficulty in duplicating the card isn't much different than creating a twin-alloy token. A bit of specialized equipment and some time and patience.
Unlike duplicating a VISA card, you don't actually need to modify a Presto reader to collect other peoples information.
Jonny5
Senior Member
How does the PRESTO machine on the bus know where you are getting off anyway? Is it manually input by the driver or does it use GPS? I know the local transit systems use GPS as it shows the actual stop you get on or off at in the transaction history. I wonder if for GO buses the driver has to tell the machine what zone it is in. If so, it's possible the driver did not do that properly. What does the entry in the transaction log say for when you got off? If they do use GPS it is also possible the location it had recorded was wrong.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
I think there are manual and automatic modes, as I've had some cases where I got on/off at Bovarid / Hurontario or Kennedy / Steeles but it says Brampton Bus Terminal - this suggest manual. But, I've also seen entries that say I got off at Main Street and Church Street (at the 7-11). There's no way a driver would have put that in, so it could have been in automatic mode that time. Some transit agencies do use GPS, but I've noticed that all my Mississauga Transit trips begin at "1 - Central Parkway Garage".
The trip in question was from Union Station to Bovaird and Hurontario. When I took the GO bus directly it charged me the normal zone 33 fare and said "Union Bus Terminal to Brampton Bus Terminal". Even though I got off past BBT, they are both in the same zone. When I took the train to Bramalea and then transferred to the Trinity Common bus it only deducted a Union to Bramalea fare and said "Union Station to Bramalea Station" + "Bramalea Station to Bovaird & Hurontario". Essentially, it refunded everything I paid when I boarded the bus, despite me crossing the zone boundary at highway 410.
While these trips begin and end at the same location, the only difference is that the Trinity Common bus only travels 2 blocks in zone 33 while the train-bus has already travelled 75% of the distance once it reaches my stop.
The trip in question was from Union Station to Bovaird and Hurontario. When I took the GO bus directly it charged me the normal zone 33 fare and said "Union Bus Terminal to Brampton Bus Terminal". Even though I got off past BBT, they are both in the same zone. When I took the train to Bramalea and then transferred to the Trinity Common bus it only deducted a Union to Bramalea fare and said "Union Station to Bramalea Station" + "Bramalea Station to Bovaird & Hurontario". Essentially, it refunded everything I paid when I boarded the bus, despite me crossing the zone boundary at highway 410.
While these trips begin and end at the same location, the only difference is that the Trinity Common bus only travels 2 blocks in zone 33 while the train-bus has already travelled 75% of the distance once it reaches my stop.
Electrify
Senior Member
With GO buses you need to tap off when exiting the bus as well.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Correct. If you do not tap out you will be charged as if you rode to the end of the line (heaven help you if the bus is going to Guelph or Beaverton) and your card will lock.
DavidH
Senior Member
I'm seeing some very different behaviours on some trips. Most of the time, travelling on the 96 bus between Ajax and Yonge Street (just south of Finch terminal), I'm charged $4.20 on boarding and another $1.77 or so upon exiting. But every once in a while, I'm charged something like $14.30 on boarding and then issued an $8.80 refund when exiting.
Anyone know why?
I have to admit the degree of indeterminacy in billing practices has me a bit nervous with Presto.
Then there's the nerviousness over what will happen if I fail to tap off when exiting...
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Komiksulo
Active Member
Weird. It's been three days and I'm still not seeing any charges for the second half of my trip back to Sutton on the GO bus. I remember when I tapped off, the screen showed a balance of around $29.00. When I boarded the bus in Newmarket, I said that I was going to Sutton, but I have no idea whether the trip was charged at GO fare or as a two-zone YRT trip.
The Presto website still has a balance of $32.68 and only three transactions:
It did deduct $6.76 in total for the trip from Union to Newmarket. The GO fare calculator says that trip costs $7.30. Edit: the GO website says that a 7.5% discount is applied when using Presto, but the fare calculator doesn't mention that at all.
Note that the load of $40 ends up with the card having $39.44 after the $0.31 negative value and a $0.25 fee are subtracted.
The Presto website still has a balance of $32.68 and only three transactions:
Code:
08/09/2011 20:28:00 GO Transit Newmarket - NewmarketBusTerminal At Eag E-Purse Fare Payment -$2.56 $32.68 Sep - 2011 1 N/A N/A
08/09/2011 19:31:00 GO Transit Toronto - UnionStationBusTerminal At Ba E-Purse Fare Payment -$4.20 $35.24 Sep - 2011 2 N/A N/A
08/09/2011 19:24:00 GO Transit Union Station Rail E-Purse Load Value $40.00 $39.44 Sep - 2011 N/A N/A N/ANote that the load of $40 ends up with the card having $39.44 after the $0.31 negative value and a $0.25 fee are subtracted.
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DavidH
Senior Member
Bear in mind that all Presto trips are discounted from the cash fare, with higher discounts once you are over 35 rides in a month, of course.
The GO fare calculator says a 10 ride for that trip costs $67.50, with each fare therefore being 6.750. That's within a rounding error of what you are seeing.
Most of my trips show the same pattern, with the charged fare being 1/10 of a ten-ride. The occasional "large charge on board with a refund on exit" tends to come out to about 20 cents less for some reason.
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nfitz
Superstar
Your embarrassed because it's cheaper than many countries?!?
nfitz
Superstar
TTC rollout schedule is on the Metrolinx website - http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20110915/Presto_update20110915.pdf
Agreement should be signed in November 2011. Construction from March 2012 to March 2013. Rolled out in subway stations from April 2013 to July 2014. Streetcars from April 2013 to 2015. Buses from summer 2013 to 2015. Substantially complete before the Pan-Am Games. Legacy fare media withdrawn 6 months after roll-out complete. Seems they are looking at Guelph and Grand River as well.
Agreement should be signed in November 2011. Construction from March 2012 to March 2013. Rolled out in subway stations from April 2013 to July 2014. Streetcars from April 2013 to 2015. Buses from summer 2013 to 2015. Substantially complete before the Pan-Am Games. Legacy fare media withdrawn 6 months after roll-out complete. Seems they are looking at Guelph and Grand River as well.