It will take 1.5 to 2 years to have it rolled out in subway stations, when it's already rolled out in some subway stations? Oy vey...
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It will take 1.5 to 2 years to have it rolled out in subway stations, when it's already rolled out in some subway stations? Oy vey...
nfitz
Superstar
Took about 3.5 to 4.5 years to roll out the first 12 stations.
rbt
Senior Member
Software doesn't exist yet and needs to be written. TTC features for transfers don't exist nor has any scaling to TTC requirements been tested. You can't install it in all subway stations until the system as a whole can handle ~500 transactions per second.
kkgg7
Banned
I think he was embarassed because it is expensive and the subway coverage is so small for a relatively large city. Among the cities I have been to, the TTC fare is more expensive than New York, Chicago, Paris, London, Rome etc.
For example, In Paris, you buy 10 tickets ("carnet) for 11.5 euros (1.15 euro per ticket). In London, one trip by Oyster card costs 1.9 pounds, and the nice thing London does is, it caps your fare to 8 pounds in zone 1 and 10 pounds in zone 2-4 within 24 hours. Isn't it nice when you are not sure how many trips you may need during the day, as when you incur more trips than planned, you are capped at a "day pass" cost without having to buy one since you may not know in advance. In New York it is $2.1 per ride (if you buy 10), monthly at $104 and weekly at $29 (26 subway lines, 24/7).
All these are cheaper than TTC, not even to mention their subway systems are like 5 times larger.
Aren't you embarassed as well?
Jonny5
Senior Member
Also most of the exisiting installations need expansion and or relocation. For example, the card readers at the Dundas southbound platform are on the turnstiles that 90% of people use to exit the platform. You simply can't use them for 60 seconds after a train comes in as people are using them to go out. Union Station will need more than two readers, though it's being overhauled anyway. Bloor Yonge also needs more than two at The Bay entrance and they need to be added to the automatic entrance on Yonge Street.
Swarley
Active Member
Is anyone else underwhelmed by the figures in that report?
64,000 cards issued seems pretty small considering all the promotion they seem to have done over the last year. GO Transit alone has 200,000 + daily ridership, Mississauga 100,000+, plus all the other small systems. And I'm sure some of those 64,000 are sitting in a drawer somewhere.
I can't help but wonder if some of the difficulties people have had using them (like having to trek to Union to reset a negative balance) have impacted adoption rates...
64,000 cards issued seems pretty small considering all the promotion they seem to have done over the last year. GO Transit alone has 200,000 + daily ridership, Mississauga 100,000+, plus all the other small systems. And I'm sure some of those 64,000 are sitting in a drawer somewhere.
I can't help but wonder if some of the difficulties people have had using them (like having to trek to Union to reset a negative balance) have impacted adoption rates...
DavidH
Senior Member
Never underestimate the power of inertia. Most have not switched because they haven't been forced to switch.
TOareaFan
Superstar
That is an interesting point.....as noted above, the TTC implementation plan calls for the end to the legacy fare system 6 months after Presto is fully implemented. I presume that means no more tickets/tokens?
If so, what is the date for GO and the other systems that have already switched?
It probably seems small/petty to the people who designed this system but it would not shock me at all if the low(ish) adoption rate for GO transit users is somehow related to the $6 charge just for getting the card. Sure, they can say that you earn that back through the discounted fares but the vast majority of GO users are daily riders who already get those discounts through monthly/ten-ride passes!
So if the adoption rate remains low.....and they deem that a drop dead date for the legacy system is appropriate.....are they gonna eat the $6 per card on the remaining cards to be issued? assume that 50k (just cause round numbers make math easier) of the cards are GO users....so to "force" the remaining 150k users to switch is there $900k in the budget? Is there similar $ in the budget for other systems?
Are all of those TTC metropass users gonna have to switch (is that part of the legacy system dropping too?)....if so, that is a lot of $6s! (I see no reason to get rid of that fairly efficient card/system - it fits well with the PoP idea) but if that is part of it that will be an issue.
vic
Senior Member
Allow me to gripe again about not having Presto at Dundas West station. It connects to GO (Bloor station) and is already slated to become part of this big mobility hub, etc..etc.. I can use Presto almost everywhere I normally go now (Mississauga buses, coming home from Kipling/Islington stations, Union Station, GO buses/trains, HSR...) but I can't use it at my home station.
DavidH
Senior Member
I'd suspect that most GO users have gotten the card for free, since they had a free period with each station GO live and are now in the middle of a two month free period.
As for a date for discontinuing existing media, I have not heard a date about GO but I know that it has been under discussion. Clearly it doesn't make sense to support two fare infrastructures forever.
TOareaFan
Superstar
The numbers, however, dispute the notion that most GO users have it. I don't track numbers much but someone said GO has 200k daily users and total Presto cards issued is just over 60k! So even if the other systems had not signed up one user...."most" GO users have not received the card at all (whether free or not).....so do the "free" periods get extended right through to the date the old systems get dropped? or is someone going to have to deliver the uncomfortable message that "starting tomorrow you can't pay the old way and, btw, it will cost you $6 to start paying the new way!" I dunno!
DavidH
Senior Member
Sorry, my phrasing was unclear. I meant "most GO Prestocard users" have gotten it for free.
And yes, eventually they are going to have to say "if you want to ride, this is how you pay for it. No other options, other than undiscounted cash fare, are available."
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TOareaFan
Superstar
I think you are a statistical genius! The 3 cards in my household...2 were free and 1 cost $6 (the cost of being an early adopter, I guess)...so yes, based on that limited sample size most were free!
Anyone know what the implementation budget said about how much the cards would cost? If they budgeted on every card bringing in the $6 to offset the cost of the card and the setup, etc., the cost of the project must be going up with each "get yours now, free" period....no?
By the above estimates, though, no more than a 1/3 of GOs customers have adopted the card.....so there is this looming issue of how you get the rest and who pays.
Jonny5
Senior Member
There's also the matter of having the time to get the card. Sure, you can get it at a GO station for free, but that means standing around and waiting for it. I can't see that taking less than 10 minutes to do. That means you have to wake up 10 minutes early in the morning or get home 10 minutes late. For me, those are both unpalatable options. When I used to ride the train everyday, the last thing I wanted was to have to get up even earlier in the morning or sit around after finally getting off the train and being almost home for the day. Yes, you can order it online but I think a lot of people would be turned off by the complexity of that.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
WMATA, DC's umbrella agency took a novel approach to increase the adoption rates of their SmarTrip card - they no longer issue transfers. Period. However, you can buy the card at most drug stores in the district and you can transfer the balance of old Metro Rail tickets onto the card at any TVM.
Fun fact: When you count the reciprocity agreement with Maryland's, you can use SmarTrip in three-ish states.
Fun fact: When you count the reciprocity agreement with Maryland's, you can use SmarTrip in three-ish states.