[DavidH]

GO will be posting the details surrounding their discount program towards the end of the month on their website. PRESTO doesn't affect or set transit fares, its simply a means of payment.

I haven't heard this, but if so, it will be interesting to see. Presto fares will NOT use the current zone system but will use newer finer-grained zones, as I understand it. The intent is to make it a purer fare-by-distance implementation.

 

[nfitz]

I'd think the price for passes on Presto would have to be the same as the same passes using the old method though ... at least when they start this fall.

 

[DavidH]

I'd think the price for passes on Presto would have to be the same as the same passes using the old method though ... at least when they start this fall.

They can't be, though, because the zone implementation is different, and there is a progressive discount system instead of monthly passes. GO has tried to keep prices roughly the same for most trips, but there will be some people who will come out better on one system or the other.

This fall is just a field trial of a few hundred people, though, and those people have already been signed up as far as I know; the real crunch will in the spring when the first lines get full implementation.

 

[DavidH]

GO will be posting the details surrounding their discount program towards the end of the month on their website. PRESTO doesn't affect or set transit fares, its simply a means of payment.

It's here now:

http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/presto/PrestoFares.htm

This is just for the stations involved in the trial, but you can see in a month like November where you would make 40 trips if you work each weekday, you will pay $204.70, which is $0.30 less than a non-Presto monthly pass. Going above forty trips, your additional cost per trip becomes near negligible ($0.30 per trip) but nonzero. On the other side, you don't make 40 trips (e.g. illness) you will save money.

From this chart, it's unclear how additional trips made on other routes will be discounted. We'll have to wait for the spring for that, I suppose - but my understanding is that discounts will apply based on the total ridership amount that month regardless of route. If so, people who routinely travel multiple routes will be the big winners from Presto, though.

Whether this is better or worse than a monthly pass depends on who you are.

 

[nfitz]

and there is a progressive discount system instead of monthly passes.

The PRESTO website was recently updated to say "When purchasing your PRESTO card, you must load either a dollar value (also called an e-purse), or a monthly pass (also called a period pass – available in fall 2010) onto it".

Perhaps the left-hand doesn't know what the right-hand is doing, but it indicates that there will be passes ... though it's up to each agency what they do really.

 

[nfitz]

Whether this is better or worse than a monthly pass depends on who you are.

Hmm, so if you make less than 10 trips in a month, but you use a 10-ride, you are screwed. The 10-ride ticket is $57.25; that's $5.73 a trip. Yet even if you go through up to 2 10-ride tickets a month, it will cost you more money?

Surely the fare for 1-10 trips should start at the 10-ride ticket level, the same way that the first TTC trip starts at the price for a token; not the price for cash.

 

[DavidH]

The PRESTO website was recently updated to say "When purchasing your PRESTO card, you must load either a dollar value (also called an e-purse), or a monthly pass (also called a period pass – available in fall 2010) onto it".

I think that is a reference to non-GO agencies.

 

[nfitz]

I think that is a reference to non-GO agencies.

Likely ... the loss of the pass probably isn't a huge GO issue ... at least not until there is real frequent RER-like service ... and pass users seem to benefit.

It's the complete lack-of-competiveness with the 10-ride ticket that is mind-boggling!

 

[DavidH]

My sense is that they are taking advantage of the capabilities of Presto to refactor their fare system into a different form, and that they are more interested in ensuring regular riders get discounts than in giving discounts for people who currently prepurchase a 10 ride and use it over a number of months.

Current 10 ride users who ride regularly (and there are many who do so but do not buy monthly passes for whatever reasons) will be big winners under this system as they will now get the full discount of a monthly pass without needing to prepurchase a pass. Those who ride multiple routes are also winners.

But if there are winners, there are losers as well, and GO seems to have decided that subsidies to those who ride once or twice a month are one of them.

 

[nfitz]

Current 10 ride users who ride regularly (and there are many who do so but do not buy monthly passes for whatever reasons) will be big winners under this system as they will now get the full discount of a monthly pass without needing to prepurchase a pass. Those who ride multiple routes are also winners.

But if there are winners, there are losers as well, and GO seems to have decided that subsidies to those who ride once or twice a month are one of them.

Once or twice a month perhaps not ... but the 10-ride users only start to gain if they have 21 or more trips in a calendar month! That means you means that if you could do a return trip on GO as frequently as every other business day and still be paying more than using a 10-ride trip.

The mistake is making the base price, the cash fare, rather than the the discounted fare. I'm not aware of any other system where you pay the full cash fare by using this type of card; compare to London Underground where a single cash fare (zone 1) is £4.00 compared to a single fare on a card of £1.60 (no monthly minimums).

The pricing seems reasonable for pass users, but is a complete failure for other users. Which reinforces that GO is more interested in peak-hour commuter service than trying to provide a proper transport network across the GTA.

 

[DavidH]

Once or twice a month perhaps not ... but the 10-ride users only start to gain if they have 21 or more trips in a calendar month! That means you means that if you could do a return trip on GO as frequently as every other business day and still be paying more than using a 10-ride trip.

The mistake is making the base price, the cash fare, rather than the the discounted fare. I'm not aware of any other system where you pay the full cash fare by using this type of card; compare to London Underground where a single cash fare (zone 1) is £4.00 compared to a single fare on a card of £1.60 (no monthly minimums).

The pricing seems reasonable for pass users, but is a complete failure for other users. Which reinforces that GO is more interested in peak-hour commuter service than trying to provide a proper transport network across the GTA.

I do see your points. I have no idea why the specific system they have chosen was picked, so I can't offer reasons for anything. It may be that they have done the analysis to determine that few people fall into this category. I don't really know, other than, again, there are winners and losers. If you give additional discounts to some groups (frequent 10-ride users, monthly users, users of multiple routes), either other groups have to pay for it or the ridership as a whole does. It's a zero sum situation. And GO, for whatever reasons, has decided that the 10 ride users who do not ride it more than 20 times a month are in the losing category.

 

[nfitz]

I do see your points. I have no idea why the specific system they have chosen was picked, so I can't offer reasons for anything. It may be that they have done the analysis to determine that few people fall into this category. I don't really know.

I'm a bit more cynical. I suspect whichever civil servant put together the new pricing simply forgot to consider 10-ride passes!

 

[DavidH]

I'm a bit more cynical. I suspect whichever civil servant put together the new pricing simply forgot to consider 10-ride passes!

It's been extensively discussed and reviewed internally. The pricing scheme they've got is the one they want, given the compromises that were inevitable.

Doesn't mean you or I agree with it - but I don't think it was a mistake.

 

[hbl33]

If none of you have informed me more details about PRESTO card, I would have felt that I would have been ripped off by Metrolinx. I just want to see cheaper and more benefits to monthly pass users like me. If none is provided, my only choice becomes a car.

 

[nfitz]

It's been extensively discussed and reviewed internally. The pricing scheme they've got is the one they want, given the compromises that were inevitable.

Doesn't mean you or I agree with it - but I don't think it was a mistake.

It's just another indication that GO has their heads up their ass simply trying to focus on the peak-period commuter rather than providing proper regional transportation.

The irony is that though the 10-ride tickets drive me crazy in terms of their lack of ease-of-use, I'll be using them to the last, as they are significantly cheaper than Presto.

It's obscene that they have the gall to charge people $6 for a card to pay higher fares!