[rbt]

That's ridiculous--in Toronto alone, in terms of station that should be open for a good range of hours/not just rush rour, you can also go to Union, Exhibition, Mimico, Long Branch, Danforth, Eglinton, Scarborough, Guildwood, Rouge Hill, UPX Bloor/Weston/Pearson, the fare agency in the retail area at York University, and the bus terminals at Yorkdale/York Mills/Finch/STC. All of those can do things like instant in-person loads with cash, and all of those except maybe York U's ticket agency and the Finch bus terminal convenience store can do concession fares.

Those are all GO agents right? I would put money on it being against their contract with Metrolinx to make that recommendation to customers.

TTC is going to need their own staff doing these things. Perhaps station agents will get a tablet which allows them to do customer service kinds of things.

 

[DSC]

Those are all GO agents right? I would put money on it being against their contract with Metrolinx to make that recommendation to customers.

Why would Metrolinx want to reduce the uptake on Presto cards? It is possible the TTC wants to be the agency issuing cards as they MAY get $$ for each card issued but no matter" PRESTO is for all transit in the GTHA and it should not be a secret that you can get cards, have concessions noted on cards and add $$ to a PRESTO card at ANY participating agency. As noted above the TTC already says you can add $$ anywhere ("If you need to load your card using cash, you must visit the Customer Service Centre at Davisville Station, 1900 Yonge St. or any of the 11 transit agencies’ customer service outlets that use PRESTO." ) Now to get them to admit (and publicise) that cards can have concessions added everywhere too!

 

[Johnny Au]

The TTC shouldn't be using an external third-party website for asking questions. The TTC should open its own chat line in its own website and would offer much more privacy (such as not even needing to register). Twitter gets most of its money from selling personal information to advertisers (but some advertisers are withdrawing due to the website's increasingly toxic userbase) and even then, it laid off almost 10% of its workforce in one day. You can't spell Twitter without "twit."

What's next? ttchelps on Yahoo Answers, WikiAnswers, Reddit, or Tumblr? Or even editing Wikipedia articles (despite it being considered COI, which is strongly discouraged)?

 

[Megaton327]

It's not supposed to work like that as the TTC doesn't yet have student fares programmed to Preto but there is some recognition for it. Officially you are supposed to have the concession you want programed by each transit agency you want to use it with. So if you use the TTC and YRT you need to register it with both systems.

The TTC definitely does have student fares for Presto, not sure where you heard that; it's $1.95 per http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Prices/index.jsp

And that's not actually required, officially--you can set student fares at GO and use them on TTC, at TTC and use them on GO, etc. The TTC just misinforms their own staff and their customers into thinking that.

You would, however, be required to make sure you're in compliance with the student fare terms and conditions for every agency on which you're travelling. For instance, the TTC, I think, now just needs proof of age 13-19 inclusive; GO student riders need school IDs.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The TTC definitely does have student fares for Presto, not sure where you heard that; it's $1.95 per http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Prices/index.jsp

And that's not actually required, officially--you can set student fares at GO and use them on TTC, at TTC and use them on GO, etc. The TTC just misinforms their own staff and their customers into thinking that.

You would, however, be required to make sure you're in compliance with the student fare terms and conditions for every agency on which you're travelling. For instance, the TTC, I think, now just needs proof of age 13-19 inclusive; GO student riders need school IDs.

So let me get this straight...

Say you're eligible for student fares on GO Transit. If you register for student fares with GO, your Presto card will then be set to use student fares for all agencies regardless of if you're eligible for a student fare with those other agencies.

Metrolinx expects users of the Presto card to manually verify their eligibility for student fares whenever taking a trip on another agency. And if they're not eligible, are they supposed to buy another Presto card that doesn't have the student discount applied? And if you don't carry a second Presto card I guess you can get fined for fare evasion?

If true, this is absolute madness. This stuff should just work. Presto should be set to use student fares on whatever agencies you're eligible for, and not use student fares where you're not eligible.

 

[WillTo]

I think the opposite. There should be student recognition reciprocity .

 

[crs1026]

It would be a whole lot easier if Ontario put the student transit subsidy into some sort of flat-rate tuition subsidy. Students would get the same economic benefit but pay adult fare. Whole lot easier to administer than all this verification stuff, and no expensive Presto programming..

This is a political encumbrance to what ought to be the simplest possible fare structure.

- Paul

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It would be a whole lot easier if Ontario put the student transit subsidy into some sort of flat-rate tuition subsidy. Students would get the same economic benefit but pay adult fare. Whole lot easier to administer than all this verification stuff, and no expensive Presto programming..

This is a political encumbrance to what ought to be the simplest possible fare structure.

- Paul

Do you know what would be a whole lot easier? If the creators of Presto gave half a damn about user experience.

This isn't some impossible engineering challenge. There are many companies that have to verify student credentials across thousands of schools around the world, so don't tell me this is impossible. Metrolinx is only dealing with a few dozen institutions. Programming in a ruleset to verify student fare eligibility across these agencies would be trivial, if Metrolinx cared enough to do so.

But, as is typical for Presto, rather than properly implementing the fare system and Presto's features, they half ass the job, and leave it to the end users to figure out what the heck is going on, and potentially sticking them with a fare evasion ticket when they screw up. It's not as if GTA commters and operators have any other options.

And people still wonder why the public has an overwhelming negative view of the Presto program.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The TTC definitely does have student fares for Presto, not sure where you heard that; it's $1.95 per http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Prices/index.jsp

And that's not actually required, officially--you can set student fares at GO and use them on TTC, at TTC and use them on GO, etc. The TTC just misinforms their own staff and their customers into thinking that.

You would, however, be required to make sure you're in compliance with the student fare terms and conditions for every agency on which you're travelling. For instance, the TTC, I think, now just needs proof of age 13-19 inclusive; GO student riders need school IDs.

One of my post-secondary peers was telling me that the TTC had a $2.00 fare for post secondary students. I know the TTC's fare system well, so I was telling him that what he said wasn't true; the TTC only offers a discounted post-secondary Metropass, and otherwise the fare is the normal cash/token fare. Furthermore, he wasn't even a student at a post-secondary institution in Toronto, so I was certain he was not eligible for any fare discount whatsoever.

But he remained positive that every time he used the TTC, he was charged only $2.00, and he told me to just go to Union Station to sign up for the fare discount.

Now I realize that what happened is he applied for a GO Transit post secondary discount, which erroneously made him eligible for the TTC's elementary/high school student fare. I don't know if he even realizes that he's not supposed to be able to use that discount, and could get stuck with a fare evasion ticket.

Metrolinx needs to sort this nonsense out. Students are likely getting ticked for this, thinking that this is a legitimate fare discount (if they're even aware they haven't been paying full fares). Unbelievable.

 

[steveintoronto]

One of my post-secondary peers was telling me that the TTC had a $2.00 fare for post secondary students. I know the TTC's fare system well, so I was telling him that what he said wasn't true; the TTC only offers a discounted post-secondary Metropass, and otherwise the fare is the normal cash/token fare. Furthermore, he wasn't even a student at a post-secondary institution in Toronto, so I was certain he was not eligible for any fare discount whatsoever.

But he remained positive that every time he used the TTC, he was charged only $2.00, and he told me to just go to Union Station to sign up for the fare discount.

Now I realize that what happened is he applied for a GO Transit post secondary discount, which erroneously made him eligible for the TTC's elementary/high school student fare. I don't know if he even realizes that he's not supposed to be able to use that discount, and could get stuck with a fare evasion ticket.

Metrolinx needs to sort this nonsense out. Students are likely getting ticked for this, thinking that this is a legitimate fare discount. Unbelievable.

Thumbs up, but in this case, it's not Presto's fault *directly* (albeit their political masters are due some venom) but the TTC's....mostly.

I think (and not knowing precisely is a huge part of the problem, is there a degree program for understanding Presto?) that the age and/or qualifications given at time of applying for the card for proof of eligibility for any form of concession is carried on the car in some form of code, and the card reading software of the particular transit system then deduces whether that concession applies in the user's case in that instance or not.

Btw: If he did get a ticket, the amount of confusion surrounding the details would get the charge dismissed in most any courtroom. I doubt that the TTC would be foolish enough to set themselves up for a court appearance over that.

 

[crs1026]

Btw: If he did get a ticket, the amount of confusion surrounding the details would get the charge dismissed in most any courtroom. I doubt that the TTC would be foolish enough to set themselves up for a court appearance over that.

Well, I don't know about that. I doubt there is much oversight of what charges are being laid either before or after court, and I doubt the TTC does a case by case post-mortem when the court dismisses a charge. They probably review overall statistics at some level and look for trend areas for review. There must be some process to educate fare inspectors about "lessons learned" but it won't happen every week. The media doesn't attend ticket court so there isn't much reputational impact from these things.

If the individual did present legit credentials for a legit institution, and the software is not restricting the fare treatment to the appropriate trips, I have no sympathy for Metrolinx. But it's quite unfair where the individual has to go out of their way to argue the issue.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

Well, I don't know about that. I doubt there is much oversight of what charges are being laid either before or after court, and I doubt the TTC does a case by case post-mortem when the court dismisses a charge. They probably review overall statistics at some level and look for trend areas for review. There must be some process to educate fare inspectors about "lessons learned" but it won't happen every week. The media doesn't attend ticket court so there isn't much reputational impact from these things.

If the individual did present legit credentials for a legit institution, and the software is not restricting the fare treatment to the appropriate trips, I have no sympathy for Metrolinx. But it's quite unfair where the individual has to go out of their way to argue the issue.

- Paul

The onus would be on the TTC to prove an intent to cheat. With what Tiger's friend states, huge doubt is put on the TTC for not making the rules clear or consistent. In fact, most JPs would be upset at the TTC for bringing such a charge before a clogged court.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

All Presto readers at Royal York Station were erroneously denying cardholders with a valid epurse balance tonight. This isn't the first report of this happening at this particular station. I saw complaints about this online more than a week ago.

 

[Megaton327]

But he remained positive that every time he used the TTC, he was charged only $2.00, and he told me to just go to Union Station to sign up for the fare discount.

Now I realize that what happened is he applied for a GO Transit post secondary discount, which erroneously made him eligible for the TTC's elementary/high school student fare. I don't know if he even realizes that he's not supposed to be able to use that discount, and could get stuck with a fare evasion ticket.

That's incorrect--as I mentioned earlier, I used to be signed up for the GO post secondary discount, and on TTC that charges the adult fare of $2.90, not $1.95. The Presto code is 'PS1', when you have a code that a system doesn't recognize, it defaults to adult, and the TTC does not have a 'PS1' code.

 

[Megaton327]

All Presto readers at Royal York Station were erroneously denying cardholders with a valid epurse balance tonight. This isn't the first report of this happening at this particular station. I saw complaints about this online more than a week ago.

Had a family member get 'declined' on a streetcar the other day with plenty of balance. Serious issue--they say if readers are out of service you ride free, but to an operator, surely 'declined' cannot be easily distinguished between a lack of funds and a technical issue?