[MetroMan]

I have the app. It’s visually appealing but the UX is poor.

For example, the main information users are seeking in this app is 1) balance and 2) ride history.

The balance should be far more prominent, perhaps even taking up nearly the full available space on the card so it is instantly seen at a glance.

Second, there’s a Load New Passes button that will be seen forever regardless if the user ever buys passes and even after they do. This pushes the second most sought after info — ride history — below the screen, and forces the user to scroll to find it.

What’s not seen here is that there’s a startup animation that wastes 3-4 seconds. That might not seem like a lot but in context of how it’ll be used, one handed on a moving bus or in line to tap your card, quickly verifying the balance with people waiting behind you, every second counts.

There’s a difference between graphic design and user experience design. Many developers don’t seem to understand this.

The iOS app doesn’t have that much utility because of the restrictions on the NFC chip on Apple devices. On Android, you can tap your card to the back of your phone and update the balance on the card instantly.

There’s been indications in iOS that Apple is about to provide a public API to developers to more liberally use the iPhone’s NFC chip. I think we’ll hear about it this year. It seems that Metrolinx will be ready to add that support once it’s there.

 

[MetroMan]

Syncing your Presto with an Apple Pay purchase right on the spot would be golden!

Tapping the Presto on the iPhone to reload the card.

Let's ask Apple "pretty pretty please please" to let Metrolinx use those forbidden RFID-writing APIs without giving Apple a standard 30% cut of revenues. Holy farebox loss. API restrictions and revenue loss may be why it is not on iOS quite just yet... hopefully Presto card sync with online payments come soon to eliminate the 24 hour waits.

If I correctly recall the circumstances around the launch of Suica on Apple Passbook (now Wallet), Apple doesnt charge anything for use with Suica. The benefit they get is people buying iPhones and Apple Watches because it works with that extremely popular card system. Apple even installed specialized hardware in their phones for use with Suica.

Presto isn’t a big a system as Suica but Apple has worked or is working with individual cities’ transit systems whereas Presto is growing to be a provincial system, and will end up being one of the largest in North America when fully deployed. I think it’s safe to assume that Apple will want to be a part of that.

Look for details in iOS 13. There are hints that Apple will be providing a public NFC API for College access cards, transit networks, workplace access fobs, etc.

 

[Bayer]

Presto or not, my problem with the monthly pass has always been the ridiculously high cost. There is no advantage compared to a regular Presto fare unless you use transit at least 45 times a month (and that is if you get the monthly pass for a year). Montreal charges $85/month instead of $146.25.

 

[Richard White]

Presto or not, my problem with the monthly pass has always been the ridiculously high cost. There is no advantage compared to a regular Presto fare unless you use transit at least 45 times a month (and that is if you get the monthly pass for a year). Montreal charges $85/month instead of $146.25.

There is an element of elasticity of demand here. Honestly, there is only so much people are willing to pay before they say screw this and I think it is coming to that now. If the monthly pass approaches 150-180 dollars a month people will start raising hell.

 

[DSC]

There is an element of elasticity of demand here. Honestly, there is only so much people are willing to pay before they say screw this and I think it is coming to that now. If the monthly pass approaches 150-180 dollars a month people will start raising hell.

The problem is not really the cost of the monthly pass it is that the cost of the pass is based on an unrealistically high number of single trips. This multiple is even more off now that a single fare using PRESTO is really a 2-hour pass so many people who used to buy passes find that buying single fares is cheaper. Using a pass used to have the added advantage you did not need to have change handy, now with PRESTO that advantage is also removed. They need to look at the whole idea of passes and multiples - probably going the TfL route and capping charges after a daily/weekly or monthly maximum is reached.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Agencies concerned Presto will reduce TTC access for low-income riders
Loss of discounts and fewer locations could hurt some riders

See link.

The road to full adoption of the Presto fare system by the TTC is poised to reach a major milestone in 2019, but a coalition of social agencies is extremely concerned the planned changes will leave community members behind.
Around 50 community groups demanded a meeting with TTC and Presto officials in frustration over the lack of consultation. The town hall was held at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre earlier this month.

TTCriders and the Fair Fare Coalition were among those calling for a rethink on plans to phase out legacy fare products, such as subway tokens, by the end of 2019 in favour of single-use Presto-enabled tickets.

"They’re dead set on replacing tokens, but whatever they replace it with has to make sense and it still has to be accessible to those of us who are on very low incomes and don’t have access (to the TTC) otherwise,” said community worker Sharon Anderson.

As was outlined at the town hall, the single-use tickets, which have a microchip in them allowing them to be scanned by a Presto card reader, will go on sale as of February. The tickets are intended for transit riders who don’t have a reloadable card.

Social agencies which subsidize the cost of transit for their clients will have to purchase the tickets in bulk amounts so they can qualify for fare discounts.

While agencies can now purchase three tokens at a time for their clients and pay a flat $3 per fare, soon they’ll need to purchase 400 Presto tickets at one time to qualify for the same discount.

“For a lot of small organizations like tenants rights groups that’s a lot of money,” said Susan Bender from the Fair Fare Coalition. If you don’t buy 400 tickets at a time you’re going to be paying the regular fare of $3.25 (per ticket) and I have not heard anyone admit that’s a transit hike.”

Bender worries low income or homeless riders will face increased scrutiny from transit enforcement officers if there are concerns about the validity of a ticket.

“I’ve spoken with a lot of community members who receive intense scrutiny by TTC enforcement officers, harassment based on what they look like or perceptions,” said Bender. “They need to keep the old tokens if there are still functionality problems with Presto, because it’s community members who bear the brunt when things don’t work. They’re the ones who are going to get fined, embarrassed and humiliated, targeted and tossed off transit.”
To date, the TTC says it has spent around $50 million on its rollout of Presto, which includes the installation of fare gates and other hardware installations. Forty per cent of TTC riders use a Presto card currently, and the transit agency is targeting 85 per cent adoption when integration is complete.

The TTC has already announced the Metropass in its card form will go out of circulation as of Jan. 1, replaced by a monthly fare pass loaded through Presto. Sales of the old fare products will be halted at the end of August, 2019.

Once that happens the only places to purchase TTC fares for use on Presto will be transit stations and Shoppers Drug Mart locations, which signed an exclusive deal with Metrolinx to offer the service.

For high-density areas like the downtown core, there likely won’t be much disruption for riders, but for the outer suburbs there stands to be significant drop in access, said Vincent Puhakka from TTCriders.

“Previously mom and pop shops, grocery stores, all sorts of different locations, were selling TTC fares and this cuts it down considerably,” said Puhakka. “I grew up in Eastern Scarborough and bought fares from a variety store within a 10 minute walk and not surrounded by acres of parking.”

“It’s bad enough for me as a young, relatively healthy person. Imagine a senior trying to cross a giant parking lot with a walker. It’s quite dangerous.”

John Kiru from the Toronto Association of Business Improvement Areas (TABIA), which represents some 40,000 small business owners, said independent retailers no longer able to sell TTC fares could face a significant drop in revenue.

While those businesses make little profit from selling fares, they do benefit from the increased foot traffic of people who might not otherwise be in the store.

“They might grab a newspaper or a soda or some chips at the same time as they buy a fare,” said Kiru.

Kiru said he’s made TABIA's concerns known, most recently sending a letter to Metrolinx senior management in November. Beyond acknowledging the letter was received, the agency has yet to offer a fulsome reply, he said.

Presto spokesperson Annalise Czerny admitted to “geographical gaps” in regards to Presto availability. Czerny said the agency is considering strategies for improving access, but did not provide details

The corner convenience, mom-n-pop, store will lose a reason for neighourhood people to go into them. They should be able to sell the limited-use Presto ticket. Not just from a big box corporate store.

See link.

 

[raptor]

The war on Presto has gone over the top. Every day it seems there's a new 'concern'. Who's driving these so called issues? Unions?
I'm also tired of the media grasping at straws.

 

[DSC]

[QUOTE="W. K. Lis, post: 1407766, member: 1057" The corner convenience, mom-n-pop, store will lose a reason for neighourhood people to go into them. They should be able to sell the limited-use Presto ticket. Not just from a big box corporate store. [/QUOTE]

Who says they can't? I assume TTC wants to make 'tickets' as available as possible.

 

[MetroMan]

Who says they can't?

Metrolinx. They signed an exclusivity deal with Shoppers Drugmart.

While I like that Shoppers is an official PRESTO partner because of how ubiquitous they are in Toronto, I'd like to see mom and pop corner stores given tickets to sell, if not PRESTO cards. That said, PRESTO ticket machines are going to be pretty widespread. Also, it's been all but confirmed that buses will retain their cash farebox. In that case, the bus driver would have to give them a proof of payment that can be used as a transfer. I'm guessing they'll be giving them these paper PRESTO tickets with RFID. It's the only way riders would be able to transfer into subway stations that have gates that only open with PRESTO.

 

[Richard White]

Who says they can't?

Metrolinx. They signed an exclusivity deal with Shoppers Drugmart.

While I like that Shoppers is an official PRESTO partner because of how ubiquitous they are in Toronto, I'd like to see mom and pop corner stores given tickets to sell, if not PRESTO cards. That said, PRESTO ticket machines are going to be pretty widespread. Also, it's been all but confirmed that buses will retain their cash farebox. In that case, the bus driver would have to give them a proof of payment that can be used as a transfer. I'm guessing they'll be giving them these paper PRESTO tickets with RFID. It's the only way riders would be able to transfer into subway stations that have gates that only open with PRESTO.[/QUOTE]

Actually in Mississauga the farebox is retained for one off cash purposes but paper transfers are given indicating the time for transfer purposes.

Otherwise all passes, tickets etc are on Presto.

 

[DSC]

See: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...tal-disability-anxious-about-presto-1.4952498

In which it says: "
One of the challenges for people with an intellectual disability, advocates say, is not knowing what the balance is on your card when you tap it, but the TTC said that might change in the future. "We are exploring the option of possibly including the balance on the screen," said Brown" (Heather Brown, acting manager, customer communications. )

 

[JamesKoole]

The war on Presto has gone over the top. Every day it seems there's a new 'concern'. Who's driving these so called issues? Unions?
I'm also tired of the media grasping at straws.

Sadly, this is how "media" works now. It's all about generating clicks with clickbait BS stories. You get some virtue-signalling social justice warrior concern trolls who invent stories about how Presto disadvantages the poor or some other group. The media loves this stuff to death because they can print or air a nice story about how Presto is the worst and the TTC and the government all stink.

 

[APTA-2048]

See: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...tal-disability-anxious-about-presto-1.4952498

In which it says: "
One of the challenges for people with an intellectual disability, advocates say, is not knowing what the balance is on your card when you tap it, but the TTC said that might change in the future. "We are exploring the option of possibly including the balance on the screen," said Brown" (Heather Brown, acting manager, customer communications. )

This is a no-brainer. Especially with the two-hour transfer. Everyone would be glad to know how much money and how much time they have left. I get the historical legal ridiculousness, but this has been standard practice in the 905 since the beginning.

 

[MetroMan]

Actually in Mississauga the farebox is retained for one off cash purposes but paper transfers are given indicating the time for transfer purposes.

Otherwise all passes, tickets etc are on Presto.

There won’t be anyone manning the gates at subway stations in Toronto to allow transfers through. Transfers will have to have RFID to tap transfering passengers in through the gates like all other PRESTO cards. If cash fares will remain on buses, then that solves the problem of availbity of single use PRESTO tickets. Anybody can pay their bus driver to obtain PRESTO tickets or buy them on a streetcar or subway station, in addition to the closest Shoppers Drugmart. Problem solved.

 

[nfitz]

Transfers will have to have RFID to tap transfering passengers in through the gates like all other PRESTO cards.

That's been the plan for years. The November 2012 agreement between TTC and Metrolinx says that Metrolinx will provide paper Presto tickets that operators will activate and give to passengers paying with cash.