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Wait, it's actual policy to issue a citation when they know full well a fare may have been paid and their own incompetence prevents the officer from knowing?

And they think this will survive judicial review?!?
GO has had a zero-tolerance policy for fare enforcement since the spring of 2019.


Administrative penalty systems have been tested, and have survived judicial review on multiple occasions.




If you're taking this to judicial review, you are not challenging the penalty itself, but rather the legal basis for the penalty (because the final decision-making authority for administrative penalties rests with a hearing officer as set by regulation). Generally speaking, courts have held that administrative penalties are less like a criminal charge (which provincial offences are closer to and can be punitive), and more like an overdraft fee a bank might charge (enough to ensure compliance). Therefore, the standards for due process are different.
 
GO has had a zero-tolerance policy for fare enforcement since the spring of 2019.


Administrative penalty systems have been tested, and have survived judicial review on multiple occasions.




If you're taking this to judicial review, you are not challenging the penalty itself, but rather the legal basis for the penalty (because the final decision-making authority for administrative penalties rests with a hearing officer as set by regulation). Generally speaking, courts have held that administrative penalties are less like a criminal charge (which provincial offences are closer to and can be punitive), and more like an overdraft fee a bank might charge (enough to ensure compliance). Therefore, the standards for due process are different.
That zero tolerance apparently now includes "I don't have the proper equipment to know whether you've paid or not".

You're seriously going to argue that you can demonstrate reasonableness in issuing penalties when the officer is completely unaware of, and unable to confirm, whether a fare has been paid?
 
You're seriously going to argue that you can demonstrate reasonableness in issuing penalties when the officer is completely unaware of, and unable to confirm, whether a fare has been paid?
In almost all cases, credit/debit transactions are uploaded to the back end in real time. If everyone said that they tapped their debit/credit card and revenue protection took their word for it without taking down details, it would be a rampant hole for fare evasion, and offering contactless debit/credit payments would not be viable.

The previous "inspection fare" method charged people $50 for not tapping the fare inspection device with the same method of payment used to tap on. It's more reliable because the readers have more time to sync with the backend. However, if let's say someone accidentally tapped their debit card in their mobile wallet instead of their physical debit card when being fare inspected. That person would have $50 taken out of their bank account the next day automatically. The TTC had concerns with this given their customer base (they were worried about people having $50 taken out of their bank account and not being able to afford to eat). Therefore the real-time system was implemented to give some breathing room and time to work out whether or not a fare was paid, whether or not a penalty is appropriate, and what penalty is appropriate, thereby arriving at a fair resolution. Just because you're issued a penalty notice, doesn't mean that you'll actually have to pay a penalty. It's a method of identifying the person involved, and figuring out what to do later.
 
I was able to tap on a subway fare gate last night with my Apple wallet, but the Apple pay express transit didn’t work for some reason. It’s worked previously on the GO machines. Anybody else have this issue?
 
I was able to tap on a subway fare gate last night with my Apple wallet, but the Apple pay express transit didn’t work for some reason. It’s worked previously on the GO machines. Anybody else have this issue?
Did it go to the credit or debit card on the Apple waller? Or as I want it to the Presto card?
 
It's already been established that you can't use your Presto card from your Apple wallet yet.
 
It's already been established that you can't use your Presto card from your Apple wallet yet.
See my reply above - I was referring to the express transit feature for credit cards. Not a Presto card in my Apple wallet.
 
I was able to tap on a subway fare gate last night with my Apple wallet, but the Apple pay express transit didn’t work for some reason. It’s worked previously on the GO machines. Anybody else have this issue?
Seems to be a system limitation (emphasis my own):

Can I tap on a PRESTO device without unlocking my phone on the TTC?​

Yes, you can use Express Mode in Apple Wallet to tap a credit or debit card on a PRESTO device to get on the TTC buses, streetcars and accessible taxis. Express Mode in Apple Wallet will not work on the readers on the fare gates at TTC stations. You will need to unlock your phone when tapping on a gate.

You can also use Express Mode in Apple Wallet to tap a credit or debit onto a PRESTO device to get onto GO Transit, UP Express and other participating transit agencies.
https://www.ttc.ca/riding-the-ttc/Updates/Pay-your-fare-with-your-debit-or-credit-card
 
GO has had a zero-tolerance policy for fare enforcement since the spring of 2019.

In almost all cases, credit/debit transactions are uploaded to the back end in real time. If everyone said that they tapped their debit/credit card and revenue protection took their word for it without taking down details, it would be a rampant hole for fare evasion, and offering contactless debit/credit payments would not be viable.

The previous "inspection fare" method charged people $50 for not tapping the fare inspection device with the same method of payment used to tap on. It's more reliable because the readers have more time to sync with the backend. However, if let's say someone accidentally tapped their debit card in their mobile wallet instead of their physical debit card when being fare inspected. That person would have $50 taken out of their bank account the next day automatically. The TTC had concerns with this given their customer base (they were worried about people having $50 taken out of their bank account and not being able to afford to eat). Therefore the real-time system was implemented to give some breathing room and time to work out whether or not a fare was paid, whether or not a penalty is appropriate, and what penalty is appropriate, thereby arriving at a fair resolution. Just because you're issued a penalty notice, doesn't mean that you'll actually have to pay a penalty. It's a method of identifying the person involved, and figuring out what to do later.
Nothing in the link you provided speaks about some kind of offline mode not allowing inspectors to validate the fare, and this tapping on with one card and trying to validate with another is not at all what's been reported.

Find me any legal authority to issue a penalty notice when a fare has been factually paid. It's not any sort of stretch to claim that it is unreasonable to issue notices for fare evasion when the officer actually has no way to know whether a fare has been paid or not.
 
GO has had a zero-tolerance policy for fare enforcement since the spring of 2019.
GO’s fare enforcement policy has changed this year: warning, then $35 fine, and then it keeps going up from there.
From the GO website:

“Therefore, as of October 10:
  • First time offenders will be issued a $35 fine, reduced from $100 to add a middle ground between warnings and large fines
  • Second offences, the fine will be $50
  • Third offences, a $100 fine will be issued
  • Passengers with four or more offences would be automatically served a Provincial Offence Notice, with a set fine of $200.”
 
GO’s fare enforcement policy has changed this year: warning, then $35 fine, and then it keeps going up from there.
From the GO website:

“Therefore, as of October 10:
  • First time offenders will be issued a $35 fine, reduced from $100 to add a middle ground between warnings and large fines
  • Second offences, the fine will be $50
  • Third offences, a $100 fine will be issued
  • Passengers with four or more offences would be automatically served a Provincial Offence Notice, with a set fine of $200.”

Corporate policy for public communications is still zero-tolerance, hence the $35 fine for first offenders on the website. A Revenue Protection officer will not get in trouble for issuing a $35 fine for someone committing a first offence, especially for occasional travellers (which is what probably happened to @egotripin). There are limited circumstances where only a warning will be issued, but it's still preferred for the officer to issue a $35 notice and have the passenger email Compliance Services because they're more able to look back on a customer's travel history vs revenue protection scrolling through on their mobile device. From what I've been told, Compliance Services will usually cancel or reduce the fine. But for public communications purposes, it's still zero tolerance to encourage compliance.

Nothing in the link you provided speaks about some kind of offline mode not allowing inspectors to validate the fare, and this tapping on with one card and trying to validate with another is not at all what's been reported.
This link was for Presto device availability, it was placed in the wrong location. This is the link regarding the TTC's request for real-time fare inspections:


Page 83 of this report under "Transactions on Devices that Do Not Upload on Day of Transaction Occurrence" speaks about readers operating while offline.


Find me any legal authority to issue a penalty notice when a fare has been factually paid. It's not any sort of stretch to claim that it is unreasonable to issue notices for fare evasion when the officer actually has no way to know whether a fare has been paid or not.
The legal basis for issuing a penalty notice (or equivalent) varies. And, saying that they have no way to know whether or not a fare was paid is a stretch. Fare Inspectors and Revenue Protection can see your contactless transaction history as long as the reader has uploaded the transaction to the central system. The last board report indicates a 99.83% availability rate.

Administrative Penalty System

Under the administrative penalty system used by GO/UP Express for offences 1-3. Ontario Regulation 282/10 was enacted under section 21.1 of the Metrolinx Act 2006. Metrolinx is granted the authority to enact bylaws and collect administrative fees (fines) in accordance with those by-laws. By-Law No. 2 section 2.24 requires persons presenting a ticket for travel (as defined in the by-law) to comply with the PRETO Contactless Terms & Conditions. The liability section indemnifies Metrolinx for any damage, loss, expense, or inconvenience because the PRESTO contactless system is delayed or fails to process a transaction (as had happened in this case).

The Administrative Penalty System is similar to contract law. However, the process is modified by a combination of regulation and legislation to have elements of the provincial offences system.

Inspection Fare System (Contract Law)
This was the old system and is no longer used (unless the device Revenue Protection is using is operating in offline mode). This system falls under contract law. It's like how if you open a bank account, you agree to pay overdraft fees if your card is overdrawn. The PRETO Contactless Terms & Conditions is the equivalent.

Provincial Offences System
This system is used by the TTC. It is also used by GO for repeat offenders. Provincial Offences are different from the Administrative Penalty System because persons issued with a Provincial Offence Notice can be issued a punitive penalty, and are thus entitled to a trial. Under the Provincial Offences Act 3(2), a Provincial Offences Officer who merely believes that an offence has been committed can serve an offence notice or summons. For further clarity, an offence under the Provincial Offences Act means "an offence under an Act of the Legislature or under a regulation or by-law made under the authority of an Act of the Legislature". In this case, the two relevant acts are the City of Toronto Act and the Metrolinx Act. The relevant by-laws are TTC by-law 1 and Metrolinx by-law 2.

If Revenue Protection sees that the card is unrecognized, and they merely believe an offence has been committed, then they can write a notice under the Provincial Offences Act. Under the act, the onus is on you to prove that Revenue Protection did not believe you committed an offence and despite this, served you a notice anyways.
 
I was able to tap through a TTC fare gate at Union station subway on Friday evening with a credit card. Weirdly it put a $1 hold on my card, which has since disappeared, and there is no charge at all now, after 3 days. Maybe there are still bugs to be ironed out, or it's just slow doing the final charge.

Update: Ah, I just read this, "A charge will appear on your credit card statement or in your bank account. This charge may take a few days to appear and multiple trips may be combined into one or more charges."
 

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