[M II A II R II K]

By now we could have got to see first hand how this TC would work out in terms of speed and traffic lights priority and stuff.

 

[Mapleson]

As for the hatred of the SELRT, 2 big reasons:

1) The transfer at Don Mills. It's annoying, and with an LRT to HRT transfer, it's most likely a permanent one. At least with a BRT to HRT transfer, there can be a sense that the subway could be extended further east one day. The SELRT pretty much cuts that possibility off for at least a generation.

2) It's overkill. The only section of the SELRT that really NEEDS LRT is from Don Mills to Victoria Park, maybe to Warden. East of there, it's squarely in the wheelhouse for BRT. Even the peak point peak period ridership is only 3,100 pphpd. The Southwest Transitway in Ottawa, which operates a significant section of shoulder bus lanes, carries more than that, and it does just fine.

These two points seem to be contrary. If LRT is an over-build, HRT would be even worst. Also, the HRT/LRT connection is designed to be at the platform level. Not really a 'long term' issue any more than a HRT/BRT connection would be for future conversion.

 

[gweed123]

These two points seem to be contrary. If LRT is an over-build, HRT would be even worst. Also, the HRT/LRT connection is designed to be at the platform level. Not really a 'long term' issue any more than a HRT/BRT connection would be for future conversion.

You need to look at the ridership levels at various points along the line though. From Don Mills to Victoria Park could be justified as a subway. It's BRT level demand from Victoria Park to McCowan. East of McCowan, it's BRT Light, at best.

 

[sixrings]

You need to look at the ridership levels at various points along the line though. From Don Mills to Victoria Park could be justified as a subway. It's BRT level demand from Victoria Park to McCowan. East of McCowan, it's BRT Light, at best.

GWeed every single time I have ever driven that train and I did it daily for one year, I always got a seat. No other line you could do that on.. lets be honest it should have always been a LRT....

 

[M II A II R II K]

Ideally it should have been an uptown regional commuter rail service with lower frequencies.

 

[gweed123]

GWeed every single time I have ever driven that train and I did it daily for one year, I always got a seat. No other line you could do that on.. lets be honest it should have always been a LRT....

That is true. I've repeatedly stated that there should be one of two things done on Sheppard:

1) Subway + BRT combo

2) If the SELRT does go ahead, convert the subway to handle LRT vehicles and run it as a single thru-line.

Right now, because the LRT is far from a done deal, I favour #1. If it does happen to go ahead, I would switch to #2.

 

[Voltz]

You need to look at the ridership levels at various points along the line though. From Don Mills to Victoria Park could be justified as a subway. It's BRT level demand from Victoria Park to McCowan. East of McCowan, it's BRT Light, at best.

The ridership on the existing Sheppard Subway does not justify a subway, an extension would be even worse. The ridership change at Victoria Park would have to be at least three times as many riders west of VP compared to east of VP to justify a Subway/BRT combo. And considering that a subway to VP would cost the same as the entire LRT line I'm going to hold that the LRT will provide better service and better value.

And it has been stated in the past that the LRT tunnels to Don Mills station will be compatible with a future subway extension, it's not going to be some impenetrable barrier.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

You need to look at the ridership levels at various points along the line though. From Don Mills to Victoria Park could be justified as a subway. It's BRT level demand from Victoria Park to McCowan. East of McCowan, it's BRT Light, at best.

The subway from VP to McCowan is just to make the map look nice. That's all. Plus it wills hut Scarborough UP for the next 100 years.

 

[nhui06]

That is true. I've repeatedly stated that there should be one of two things done on Sheppard:

1) Subway + BRT combo

2) If the SELRT does go ahead, convert the subway to handle LRT vehicles and run it as a single thru-line.

Right now, because the LRT is far from a done deal, I favour #1. If it does happen to go ahead, I would switch to #2.

I agree with you that the Sheppard subway can be justified to extend to Vic Park, and possible Warden and Sheppard. Right now there is a fairly big business park at Vic Park and Sheppard, plus lots of apartments within 300-400 m of that intersection. The traffic between Vic Park and Don Mills can be brutal (mainly cause of the 404). If they are going to dig under the 404 anyways, they might as well push the subway a bit further east to Vic Park (cut and cover). Ideally the Sheppard Subway should reach at least Kennedy and Sheppard (higher concentration of residential buildings there), but Warden is a good start (lots of residential buildings within 300-400m away). I think the $900 million should be enough to cover. The city should then widen Sheppard all the way to McCowan/Markham Rd and run bus lanes on the right lanes (use the new long Arctic buses if needed).

I honestly think that the Sheppard LRT is going to be looked at next; no sense of spending some $200-300 million on a new LRT yard if the main resident (Scarborough LRT) is no longer going to use it.

 

[nfitz]

I honestly think that the Sheppard LRT is going to be looked at next; no sense of spending some $200-300 million on a new LRT yard if the main resident (Scarborough LRT) is no longer going to use it.

Why not? Metrolinx had estimated that they are going to need 35 cars for Sheppard. That's still more than than the 23 cars on Finch that are getting their own yard. http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20100519/Five_in_Ten_Board_web.pdf#page=23

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I agree with you that the Sheppard subway can be justified to extend to Vic Park, and possible Warden and Sheppard. Right now there is a fairly big business park at Vic Park and Sheppard, plus lots of apartments within 300-400 m of that intersection. The traffic between Vic Park and Don Mills can be brutal (mainly cause of the 404). If they are going to dig under the 404 anyways, they might as well push the subway a bit further east to Vic Park (cut and cover). Ideally the Sheppard Subway should reach at least Kennedy and Sheppard (higher concentration of residential buildings there), but Warden is a good start (lots of residential buildings within 300-400m away). I think the $900 million should be enough to cover. The city should then widen Sheppard all the way to McCowan/Markham Rd and run bus lanes on the right lanes (use the new long Arctic buses if needed).

I honestly think that the Sheppard LRT is going to be looked at next; no sense of spending some $200-300 million on a new LRT yard if the main resident (Scarborough LRT) is no longer going to use it.

Sheppard should be brought to McCowan and then LRT to Dean Park. That would shut everyone up.

 

[Rainforest]

)I honestly think that the Sheppard LRT is going to be looked at next; no sense of spending some $200-300 million on a new LRT yard if the main resident (Scarborough LRT) is no longer going to use it.

That's debatable. More LRT lines might be built in Scarborough eventually, for example, Eglinton - Kingston Road - UTSC - Sheppard, and McCowan North. In that case, the yard will be quite useful.

What's really needed is a connection between the extended BD subway and the Sheppard LRT. It would be rather odd if the subway runs to STC, Sheppard LRT runs 1.7 km north of it, and the two are connected by buses only. Either they should get the subway to Sheppard, or build an LRT branch to STC.

 

[doady]

I am really interested as to why people don't like surface LRT, but they'll embrace BRT. I finally had the chance to check out the YRT busway on Highway 7, and I was quite impressed by the infrastructure, but one thing that stood out for me was the busway wasn't entirely grade-seperated., and no signal priority (from my observations). Yet, I heard nothing but accolades for it.
Other than the tech, there isn't much operational difference between a median busway and a median LRT. So why the hatred towards SELRT? I don't get it.

You really think the transit ridership of Sheppard is the same as Highway 7?

And yes, there is a major operational difference between the Highway 7 BRT and the Sheppard LRT: one connects to Yonge, the other doesn't. And considering the TTC is a grid system, I think that's an important distinction. The Highway 7 BRT will be a trunk route, while the Sheppard LRT will be a feeder route. And guess which one costs a lot more to build?

 

[W. K. Lis]

You really think the transit ridership of Sheppard is the same as Highway 7?

And yes, there is a major operational difference between the Highway 7 BRT and the Sheppard LRT: one connects to Yonge, the other doesn't. And considering the TTC is a grid system, I think that's an important distinction. The Highway 7 BRT will be a trunk route, while the Sheppard LRT will be a feeder route. And guess which one costs a lot more to build?

The Highway 7 BRT would eventually connect with the 1 Yonge-University-Spadina line. See link:

Hwy. 7 Bus Rapid Transit dedicated rapidway will eventually extend west from Yonge Street to Highway 50. The first segment will be built around the Vaughan Metropolitan Centre. At the terminus for the Spadina subway extension, subway riders will have seamless connections to Viva and other transit systems.

 

[Solid Snake]

Ford says axing LRTs on Sheppard is next on plate

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/09/23/ford-says-axing-lrts-on-sheppard-is-next