adma
Superstar
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- Thread starter ssiguy2
- Start date
Justin10000
Banned
Monorail news from 2008!
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Very true but it was the civil engineering that was completed but real construction didn't start till early this year.
Sao Paulo has put the first 23km of urban Monorail out to tenure which will eventually be 100km. I didn't realize however that the interior city of Manaus is also planning a urban mass/rapid Monorail system.
Damn these tonka toys! Thank god Toronto is too "world class" to build with this technology. For Toronto it's only subway or nothing for it's mass/rapid transit....................unfortunately it only uses the latter part of the equation.
Sao Paulo has put the first 23km of urban Monorail out to tenure which will eventually be 100km. I didn't realize however that the interior city of Manaus is also planning a urban mass/rapid Monorail system.
Damn these tonka toys! Thank god Toronto is too "world class" to build with this technology. For Toronto it's only subway or nothing for it's mass/rapid transit....................unfortunately it only uses the latter part of the equation.
Mapleson
Active Member
Have you been to Delhi or Mumbai? I've seen Indian people during a three-year drought building a bridge off of scaffolding they'd set-up in the dry river bed. It started raining that week. During an earthquake, all 10 apartment buildings (8-20 stories) designed by an architect collapsed. He had no structural qualifications. There is lots of money in India if you know to grease the right wheels. Overall, there background economic pattern is completely different from Canada. That means their decisions cannot just be plunked into Toronto and magically fit our needs.
For a change of pass, what type (width, length) of cars would you recommend Toronto to use? What radius corner would these be able to navigate? And at what speed?
adma
Superstar
ssiguy2, may I take a page from Nancy Ruth's phrasebook and tell you to STFU and stop spamming UT with monorail posts. And if you have nothing else to contribute to UT but monorail posts, get out of here. Vamoose. Scram.
hbl33
Active Member
Careful! You don't want to anger these folks or the almighty ruler (as present of Toronto):
On top of that, please visit this link. It'll relieve ya for a bit.
https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B5Ni4frCefkOMzUwN2IyMzAtZDBlNi00Yjg1LTkyYjUtMmViYWY2YzU1Yzkz&hl=en
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ssiguy2
Senior Member
adma....................in case you missed it this is a MONORAIL thread hence all the talk about MONORAILS. So if you don't want to discuss MONORAILS maybe you should be the one to sram.
Justin10000
Banned
Actually, you have been spamming LRT, and other technology threads with your monorail rants, and ramblings. Similar to what you used to do on SSC. Adma does bring up a valid complaint.
adma
Superstar
...a MONORAIL thread which you started, and which comprises the overwhelming bulk of your apparent raison d'etre on Urban Toronto--and as indicated by others, you seem to have a pattern of making an ass of yourself in other forums.
Now, not to say that monorails *can't* be a valid discussion point; though one'd have to overcome an awful lot of Gadgetbahn/Buck Rogers/Simpsons stigma--but *not* the crackpot way you're going about it; you're just driving it further into the paranoiac fringe.
May I suggest that this thread be closed, and ssiguy2 be at the very least put on some kind of probation.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Mapleson.........
Wow, that is a loaded question in terms of cars/curves etc. As you know there are two basic types of Monorails...suspended like Wuppertal and straddled like LV and most systems you see world wide.
Bombardier actually has a very good design but has geared itself to the small airport/amusement sector or small downtown people movers. After the LV experience it had it doesn't broadcast their system. It is making a bid in for the new 100km Sao Paulo system so we will see how it goes. Bombardier has not put a lot of effort into it's marketing of it's Monorail because it has spent a small fortune investing in it's ICTS technology but with limited success.
Tekray built the Moscow and Tehran systems but the big ones on the block are Hitachi and Scomi.
In terms of expertise and systems geared towards mass transit they would probably be the most likely good options unless the feds or prov start using their powers of persuasion and will only build Bomabardier because the Monorail cars themselves are built in Kingston.
People often have these ideas of Monorail being much faster than subways but that is not the case. They have the only a slightly faster acceleration and top out at around 90 to 100 km an hour. In terms of speed they are basically the same. Most are automated but not all just like SkyTrain but subways can also be automated as well so there is no real advantage there except over LRT. Both , unlike SkyTrain cars, have subway width cars and are articulated. Hitachi 4 car trains are 3 metres wide and 61 metres long. 4 Hitachi cars equals 3 TTC subway cars so in it's case the idea that some people have of Monorail trains having to many articulated cars doesn't hold water.
Most have a curve of 100 metres and 6% grade over 400 metres. This gives them the ability to run elevated but decline quickly so that it is possible that the stations themselves do not have to be elevated but more like your standard LRT/TC stop as long as it has enough room to incline over the cross street. This can save a small fortune because the building of stations are what can really effect the price of any system.
Nearly all systems are rubber tired so they not only have less vibration than other standard steel systems like sub/ICTS/LRT but are much quieter which is a very big deal when going down railway corridors near housing or down major roads. It offers a smoother and quieter ride and hence easier to sell to local residents.........ie Weston
Monorails are the safest mass transit systems in the world. In the entire 20th century there were a total of only 4 deaths related to Monorails......all 4 on the old Wuppertal line. Due to complete grade separation they have near perfect reliability records. The Disneyland Monorail carries over 100,000 passengers a day and has a on time reliability record of 99.8%.
Another benefit of Monorail is that it is the only elevated or at grade system that has all of it's operating systems completely covered which can be problematic in other systems especially ICTS.
Monorails , due to having only one pylon have a smaller footprint than any other elevated system and are cheaper to build to boot. Part of the reason for this is using less material when building but the real savings is that most can be built off site. When the pylons are built all that is really needed is just stick them in the ground. Due to tight curves it is possible to avoid underground infastructure, unlike LRT, requires no overhead power source. It makes for fast instalation which also makes for fewer complaints from local residents about construction time.......ie Spadina.
There is another system in it's infancy with only one new line in Korea called www.metrail.com as well as a suspended system that is under construction in Saudi Arabia called www.monometro.com It has a great website with galleries and videos but note it has two rails so technically it is not a Monorail.
I hope this helps.
Wow, that is a loaded question in terms of cars/curves etc. As you know there are two basic types of Monorails...suspended like Wuppertal and straddled like LV and most systems you see world wide.
Bombardier actually has a very good design but has geared itself to the small airport/amusement sector or small downtown people movers. After the LV experience it had it doesn't broadcast their system. It is making a bid in for the new 100km Sao Paulo system so we will see how it goes. Bombardier has not put a lot of effort into it's marketing of it's Monorail because it has spent a small fortune investing in it's ICTS technology but with limited success.
Tekray built the Moscow and Tehran systems but the big ones on the block are Hitachi and Scomi.
In terms of expertise and systems geared towards mass transit they would probably be the most likely good options unless the feds or prov start using their powers of persuasion and will only build Bomabardier because the Monorail cars themselves are built in Kingston.
People often have these ideas of Monorail being much faster than subways but that is not the case. They have the only a slightly faster acceleration and top out at around 90 to 100 km an hour. In terms of speed they are basically the same. Most are automated but not all just like SkyTrain but subways can also be automated as well so there is no real advantage there except over LRT. Both , unlike SkyTrain cars, have subway width cars and are articulated. Hitachi 4 car trains are 3 metres wide and 61 metres long. 4 Hitachi cars equals 3 TTC subway cars so in it's case the idea that some people have of Monorail trains having to many articulated cars doesn't hold water.
Most have a curve of 100 metres and 6% grade over 400 metres. This gives them the ability to run elevated but decline quickly so that it is possible that the stations themselves do not have to be elevated but more like your standard LRT/TC stop as long as it has enough room to incline over the cross street. This can save a small fortune because the building of stations are what can really effect the price of any system.
Nearly all systems are rubber tired so they not only have less vibration than other standard steel systems like sub/ICTS/LRT but are much quieter which is a very big deal when going down railway corridors near housing or down major roads. It offers a smoother and quieter ride and hence easier to sell to local residents.........ie Weston
Monorails are the safest mass transit systems in the world. In the entire 20th century there were a total of only 4 deaths related to Monorails......all 4 on the old Wuppertal line. Due to complete grade separation they have near perfect reliability records. The Disneyland Monorail carries over 100,000 passengers a day and has a on time reliability record of 99.8%.
Another benefit of Monorail is that it is the only elevated or at grade system that has all of it's operating systems completely covered which can be problematic in other systems especially ICTS.
Monorails , due to having only one pylon have a smaller footprint than any other elevated system and are cheaper to build to boot. Part of the reason for this is using less material when building but the real savings is that most can be built off site. When the pylons are built all that is really needed is just stick them in the ground. Due to tight curves it is possible to avoid underground infastructure, unlike LRT, requires no overhead power source. It makes for fast instalation which also makes for fewer complaints from local residents about construction time.......ie Spadina.
There is another system in it's infancy with only one new line in Korea called www.metrail.com as well as a suspended system that is under construction in Saudi Arabia called www.monometro.com It has a great website with galleries and videos but note it has two rails so technically it is not a Monorail.
I hope this helps.
Glen
Senior Member
Sustainability in Toronto - a Personal Rapid Transit System and a Community Development Plan for Cherry Beach
http://www.bth.se/fou/cuppsats.nsf/...dcca595ef0d13f30c12575af00699c7a?OpenDocument
http://www.bth.se/fou/cuppsats.nsf/...dcca595ef0d13f30c12575af00699c7a?OpenDocument
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I think PRT could have a small niche for areas around a commuter rail site but outside of that I don't think they are very practical especially as even small capacity in a large city. Monorail has many possiblities and one that more cities are recognizing is it'a ability to be a high capacity urban transit system .
Turns out that the Sao Paulo 100km system is going to be even larger. It will be built to 110km by 2021 and have estimated daily ridership of one MILLION passengers a day!!
Turns out that the Sao Paulo 100km system is going to be even larger. It will be built to 110km by 2021 and have estimated daily ridership of one MILLION passengers a day!!
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Why not have a Sydney version of monorail that goes around in a circle to stop at points of interest.
Fresh Start
Banned
If the elevated Gardiner's such an eyesore that the City's willing to spend billion$ burying it, why would they permit an elevated guideway through the downtown?
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Because apparently this would be a pretty guideway 