TOareaFan
Superstar
It appears you may not have read the link:
"Bombardier will be responsible for almost all aspects of the 12-train, six-station system, including maintaining it for at least a decade, the company said in a release."
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- Thread starter ssiguy2
- Start date
It appears you may not have read the link:
"Bombardier will be responsible for almost all aspects of the 12-train, six-station system, including maintaining it for at least a decade, the company said in a release."
GenerationW
Senior Member
As evidenced by the mayoral candidates who fully support it............well there's one (and he has almost no chance of winning).
Justin10000
Banned
If support for TC was eroding, the front runner would have scrapped all the LRT lines, and gone with subways like the other candidates. Clearly he knows something. Obviously the Public Transit Coalition managed to get their message out, unlike a certain SOS group.
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nfitz
Superstar
I had read the link ... and then I went to Bombardier's site, and read their press release, where they said they were responsible for all of the mechanical and electrical aspects of the project, including the track and trains (and I'd assume power and signalling), and that they were subcontracted to a large civil construction company - who I'd presume are doing all the civil works.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Any idea what that brings the cost to? Based on what was reported, the cost sits at $241 million for a 3.6km line so about $67 million a kilometre and that includes trains (12) and stations (6) and 10 years of maitainance. If, arbitrarily, I say that 10% of that is for the maint. contract then the cost of $60 million (per km) all in (subject to those civil works) makes this a pretty competitive cost proposal for public transit....no?
Like I said, it may not be people's prefered technology.....but at those costs it has to be worth a look, no?
nfitz
Superstar
If Bombardier's contract is really only the track, trains and electrical, then it won't include the the civil works (stations, bridges, elevated structures). $60-million per kilometre isn't much ...
If you look at the SRT, it will be about 9.5 km with the extension to Sheppard. Metrolinx has said they are going to order 48 cars this month for this line; enough for 16 3-car trains. The cars are $5.9-million each using the pricing for the original order. So that's $282 million just for the cars ... or about $30-million per kilometre just for the vehicles.
$60-million per kilometre is clearly not including civil works - which is normally the bulk of a project.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Ok....but if we are paying $282 million for 16 3 car trains and they are getting 12 (I am gonna presume they are also 3 car trains) plus (at least) track and electrical and 10 years maint. for $241 million.
The fact that it is not much is precisely the point.....does this technology offer signfiicant cost advantages that make it something we should consider.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Have you actually read the platforms? Just because they haven't cancelled every LRT line doesn't mean the system isn't imperiled (and it's not an all or nothing proposition except in your head. LRT should be employed where it makes sense). The only TC lines going forward are the Sheppard (because that's started and nobody wants to pay the price of cancelling it) and Eglinton (because nobody wants to pay for a full subway end-to-end) and Finch in a very truncated form (the one place everybody agrees LRT makes sense). Basically the candidates are supporting what is barely supportable from Transit City: the redone Metrolinx plan till 2020. Beyond that Transit City is finished if anybody other than Pantalone gets elected. That vision of a grid of LRT lines will never materialize. Hell, none of the LRT lines, out of the ones being built even connect. So I would even wonder if Finch will materialize or whether Eglinton will stay LRT.
You can spin it however you want, but Transit City ends after the construction of those lines. So if there really was strong public support for TC, why is there only one candidate backing TC in its entirety? And why isn't he surging in the polls.
Let's take one line that you love to debate with us here: the SRT refurb and extension. Smitherman: subway to STC. Thomson: subway to STC (and possibly canning Sheppard as well). Rossi: subway to STC. Ford: subways (but we'll discount him cause there's no firm plan). Pantalone: lone candidate favouring LRT to Malvern.
A few weeks/months back you were debating me on how there was tons of support from Scarborough for an LRT to Malvern. So are all these candidates morons and you know something they don't? Or could it be that they've all latched on to public opinion which favours a subway to STC above an LRT to Malvern.
Anyway, enjoy your straw man about Transit City being popular because the front runner hasn't axed it in its entirety. The rest of us, who are grounded in reality, undersand that the only hope Transit City has of surviving in its current form is if Pantalone wins or Giambrone or Miller get back in the race and win.
As for the "Public Transit Coalition" (dunno why they just didn't call themselves the "Transit City Fan Club" or "The Giambrone-Miller Posse"), they were so successful at moving public opinions that all of the front runners are proposing limited LRT deployments and as much subway expansion that they can. SOS didn't have to do anything (though we did reach out to many of the candidates) and there's already more of our vision reflected in the plans of all the candidates (save Pantalone) than the Public Transit Coalition. But hey what do we know? We're just a bunch of suburbanites who understand how suburbanites use transit everyday and what they want to see built.
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Justin10000
Banned
Bombardier is not building the guideway, you are going to have to find how the actualy guideway construction is going to cost.
GenerationW
Senior Member
The only reason I'm aware of SOS is that I'm a member of this forum, but I've either never come across any reference to the Public Transit Coalition here or elsewhere, or it left no impression on me if I did.
But then again, based on what I know SOS claims to be a small group, while, as my quick and exhaustive research has uncovered, PTC is:
Why even mention SOS against PTC's might, unless it actually fears SOS and/or that boast of 12K is more grossly inflated than the featured dancer at the Brass Rail.
Do you speak for the PTC? And if so, are you the one to blame for that super-bland acronym?
ssiguy2
Senior Member
If you go to Bombardier's website you will notice that they have very little info about their monorail products/systems but a whole crap load on ICTS. Despite this they never get any new cities to climb aboard ICTS. They have spent so much money developing and promoting ICTS and they still can't seem to give away. In my opinion I think Bombardier is realizing that they are throwing good money after bad and are realizing it has been a bad investment in money and time.
Justin10000
Banned
You can keep believing there will be a network of subways coming soon. It's not going to happen, ever. None of the candidates plans, and funding schemes are realistic. No candidate is going to go to the province and say "i do not want the funding. Cancel it all!"
Smitherman: Not going to happen, not possible to use ROW without significant reconstruction; Sarah: Used someone else's map. Did she apologize for that yet? Low-balled numbers, and her funding scheme will not raise the funds for the subway. I'll bet if she were elected mayor, she would just stick with the Metrolinx plan. Rossi: Joke. Ford: Even bigger joke.
There is tons of support for a SRT upgrade. People want to see improvement on the corridor. Unfortunately. only Sarah, and George really had any plan for a subway to STC, and both will cost much more than they claim. Again, if they were elected, they would most likely just stick with the Metrolinx plan to convert the SRT to LRT after 2015.
If you consider wonderland to be reality. You're are pretty far out of touch if you think Transit City is going to be cancelled because of delays, and candidates desire to distance themselves from Miller. Metrolinx has the final say, and they are not going to cancel the lines because the Mayor said so. It's very likely Smitherman will be the next Mayor, and that means a good chunk of the Transit City that is funded will be built.
Funny, how the candidates subway plans have been thoroughly critcized for being unrealistic, and too expensive. Funny how the candidates could not really come up with credible funding schemes to pay for their "vision" Funny, how the candidates want to rely on the private sector to fund this vision. You're just a bunch of suburbanites with a subway fetish who wll latch onto anyone with a subway plan, no matter how far-fetched and silly the plan is. What's even more pathetic, is you would be happy with 2km of subway every 20 years(which is what we would get the way things are going).
The Public Transit Coalition did get their message out, and it seems Metrolinx did take those 45 calls a day fairly seriously.
Justin10000
Banned
You must lead a sheltered life. Sorry cannot help you there.
Unlike SOS, The Public Transit Coaltion advocates for transit, and not just a technology. I do not talk for the PTC, but I have attended meetings, and they do care about transit, and not just subways. I guess that is why SOS is struggling to gather support(Remember that slly petition), while PTC managed to gather 12,000 signatures to show Metrolinx.
And you tink SOS is original? That's rich! I wonder how it took the members to come up with that original name!
The Mad Navigator
Banned
On a side note, "SOS" doesn't make any sense for the cause you're fighting for. We're not getting rid of any subway lines to begin with and there's only funding secured for ONE project, that's it. Maybe you guys should rethink you're acronym because, haha, all your credibility is going out the window, of what little there was to begin with.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
More good news on the monorail front.
Mumbai has announced just in the last week that it is going ahead with the extension of it's currently under construction monorail line and is going to build 7 NEW lines by 2022 bringing the system to 184km and all stations will be, at a minimum, the capacity of 20,000 pphpd. 2022 also happens to be the time when Sao Paulo will have completed it's new 110km monorail system which they are expecting to have ridership levels of approx 1 million a day by 2035.
Aren't you glad you live in one of the richest cities in the world and don't have to tolerate developing countries lousy transit systems?
I never knew so called "tonka toys" could carry a million passengers a day.................who knew.
Yet more proof that monorail is the best option for Toronto. Quick to build, subway capacity, very affordable, safer than any other system, smooth, quiet, less visually intrusive, and able to take on anything Mother Nature can dish out. No other system offers these benefits and why Toronto should emulate other large cities and build monorails.
Mumbai has announced just in the last week that it is going ahead with the extension of it's currently under construction monorail line and is going to build 7 NEW lines by 2022 bringing the system to 184km and all stations will be, at a minimum, the capacity of 20,000 pphpd. 2022 also happens to be the time when Sao Paulo will have completed it's new 110km monorail system which they are expecting to have ridership levels of approx 1 million a day by 2035.
Aren't you glad you live in one of the richest cities in the world and don't have to tolerate developing countries lousy transit systems?
I never knew so called "tonka toys" could carry a million passengers a day.................who knew.
Yet more proof that monorail is the best option for Toronto. Quick to build, subway capacity, very affordable, safer than any other system, smooth, quiet, less visually intrusive, and able to take on anything Mother Nature can dish out. No other system offers these benefits and why Toronto should emulate other large cities and build monorails.